Citroen Xantia Notchy 3rd gear

[Taffyrhys]

Got another Citroen Xantia Y reg 110 HDI estate that runs like a dream compared to the Vauxhall Estate Tdi which I scrapped due to failed diesel pump.

However i went through a few puddles on Monday in the heavy rain and ever since my 3 rd gear has been notchy and sometime is difficult to engage as you change up through the gear box. The funny thing is it not every gear chanage and changing down is no problem.

I was wondering if i need to lubricate the gear linkage due to the wet weather and the large puddle i went through?

Would i need to change the gear box oil as its done 178k miles and what type do i use?

Do i need to adjust the clutch?

Any help would be great

Cheers

Taff

[CitroJim]

Hi Taff,

A notchy third is not unknown on the ML5 gearbox but the bigger problem may be the selector cables. Is the gearchange a bit on the floppy and vague side? If not then it's likely a touch of synchro wear. A clue to selector cable wear is difficulty in engaging reverse.

Being a MK2, the cables can be replaced individually.

The cables (no linkages) may be a bit stretched and worn. They are lubricated for life. . One thing to check, and it's not easy on a 110HDi is to see that both cables are firmly anchored at the gearbox end. Basically, if you remove the airbox and struggle you'll see the ends of the two cables on the gear selector bar on top of the gearbox and each terminates in a balljoint. Check there's no play in the balljoints and that the clips holding the cable outers to the frame are in place and tight. Give the cable outers a good pull and ensure they're very firmly held. It's fiddly and room is at a premium.

An oil change is a good idea. You need 1.8 litres of Total BV 75W-80 or equivalent (Comma and Valvoline do a good one) but use nothing else. Drain from the square-headed drain plug on the bottom of the diff and refill through the reversing light switch hole after removing the reversing light switch. measure in exactly 1.8 litres.

The clutch is hydraulic and self-adjusting.

[Taffyrhys]

Hi

I've just checked the cables that fit onto the gear box linkage, with ball joints and these are attached but there is some play but i suspect this is due it covering 178k miles. If these cables are stretched would this cause the problem with 3rd gear. If the cables are replaced would this solve the problem ? and is this an easy job

It strange that it started on Monday after the wet weather and flooded roads but would this water effect the cables and linkage?

Would changing the gear box make any difference.

Is it a case to live with it and drive the car into the ground.

Thank for the help

Taff

[CitroJim]

Yes, stretched and playful cables can cause problems in engaging gears. The cables can be replaced individually but it's a heck of a job as it needs the exhaust to be dropped and access at the gearbox end is not exactly wonderful...

Here's the parts in question:



Changing an ML5 gearbox on an HDi is a nightmare (due to its size, weight and room) and expensive too as the clutch MUST be replaced at the same time as it's a fit once affair,,,

If it's not too bad I'd live with it...

Can't explain how the fault seems to come on with floods

[Taffyrhys]

Cheers for the information.

I'll change the gear box oil at the weekend, first to see if that improve the situation. Hopefully i will live with it for a couple of weeks so i can track down the cables and what for a nice weekend to do the cables

Cheers

Taff

[RichardW]

These boxes are known for ingesting water via the breather if you go wading... I'd be dropping the oil out PDQ and making sure it still looks like oil, not mayonnaise....!

[reblack68]

Can you adjust the ML5 cables at the gearbox end like you can on the BE4? If that could be done it would certainly be an easier option if the oil change doesn't help.

[CitroJim]

Can you adjust the ML5 cables at the gearbox end like you can on the BE4?

Not so far as I know Richard. Everything's fixed.

[Taffyrhys]

Thanks for all the help.

I changed the gear box oil today and the only problem i had was not having the correct size of sump plug (8mm), so had to pedal up the motor factors and buy one for £2.99 (bargain). The oil was dirty and it looks like i have a weep on the drive shaft.

Luckly i brought the Total gear box oil from the Total garage as thats the only place i could find that sold it.

Took the car for a test drive and the gear change is certainly smoother and didn't have the notchy 3rd gear so hopefully its solved the problem but the test will be the drive to work Monday.

I will keep you updated.

Cheers Taff

[CitroJim]

Great news Taff

Fingers crossed

[Chris570]

These boxes are known for ingesting water via the breather if you go wading... I'd be dropping the oil out PDQ and making sure it still looks like oil, not mayonnaise....!

that's exactly where my money would have been or even shagged diff seals

[Taffyrhys]

Hi all

I was driving down some narrow country lanes yesterday and one was flooded for a 5-10metres and not that deep, so drove through it carefully. But down the road the gear change became notchy and not that smooth like last time, so it may have taken in some water. So it looks like i have to change the oil again for another £25 .

However i want to make sure it doesn't happen again & take on any more water especially with all this wet weather and the winter around the corner. Can anyone tell me where the breather is for the gearbox? or a diagram? Any other ideas how it takes in the water.

Cheers for the help

[CitroJim]

There is no breather as such on an ML5 'box.

However...

I'd suspect the ingress route is via the hard rubber moulded grommet through which the gear selector shaft runs. These 'boxes are usually a little oily around these parts.

It's not replaceable without totally dismantling the gearbox. I'd suggest slapping a load of stiff grease around it to act as a water barrier...

[Taffyrhys]

Cheers for the information, i have to get some more grease as my tub is down to its last dregs. I'll change the gear box oil and slap plenty of grease around the rubber gromet it, have you a picture of the exact location?

Time for a bottle of beer now and settle down in front of the TV

[CitroJim]

have you a picture of the exact location?

No but I can get you one tomorrow. It's just under the selector arm when the gear-change cables connect...

Enjoy the beer