C5 2.0L HPi cutting out

[handyman]

I've found the car of my dreams! An 03 C5 Exclusiv with under 50K on the clock. However, and there is always a however, it is fitted with the 2.0L HPi engine that has developed a fault.

The engine starts easily and then cuts out after about twenty seconds. I have yet to see the car and wanted a bit of wisdom before I part with cash to resolve the problem. I know this engine is not a reliable donkey, as it has now been withdrawn by PSA.

A quick search of the archive pulls up very few leads, so does anybody have any clues before I stick a Lexia on it? Somebody stuck a Snap-On unit on it and it came up with P2149 as a fault code. I've not got my code book to hand to check this. Anybody know what it is?

As for other possible avenues to explore:
Is it the notoriously bad electrical connections, remeniscent of the CX and XM?
Is it the control valve on the high pressure circuit, failing to control the rail pressure and shutting the system down??
Could it be one of the two air temperature sensors or their connectors?

Answers on a psotcard...... No, post it on here, please!

Handyman

[CitroJim]

Buy it anyway Handyman and stick a V6 in it

[handyman]

I'd rather spend all that time and effort dropping a V6 donkey into an Activa. Much more beneficial when the end result is driven. Too much sensory deprivation in a C5.

H

[Ratheram]

Sounds like it could be the high pressure fuel pump. I have had to change a few of them before as, if I remember, there is a pump in the tank, when the ignition is on, primes the system and has enough fuel to run it for a few seconds before it dies. Ah, ill restart it. Ignition on, primes up. starts car, runs for a few seconds, dies. Grrr. Im sure there isnt any electrical sensors on the pump itself but should come up with a low fuel pressure fault instead.

[wheeler]

The HP fuel pump is a very comon failure on this engine but luckily very easy to replace as its driven off the end of the camshaft. At 50k I'd be surprised if it still has its original HP fuel pump on the car.
There are definitely no sensors on the pump itself but if i remember right there is a fuel pressure sensor screwed into the fuel rail.

[Lighty]

Both of the above are correct, low and High pressure fuel pumps fail a lot on these cars, the one in the tank has a fuel pressure regulator built into it.
problem is the cost, the in tank is probably near on £300 now and the high pressure about £500 +, no wonder they stopped making them.
Work well when right though.

[beelim]

If the high pressure pump is gone, the engine will not cut out. It will still run on the low pressure pump which develops 5 bar pressure. However the engine will go into limp mode at about 2000 rpm.
It could be the low pressure pump.
If not it could also be cutting out due to excess pressure in the high pressure fuel rail. This will send a signal to stop the engine and it won't start again till the excess pressure drains. Stick it on the lexia and give us the feedback.
I've worked a lot on this engine, and have lots of info.

[scoobie11000]

Hi, above is EXACTLY the symptoms my car is showing. Gets to normal running temperature then cuts out, but will restart when temp has lowered slightly. Showing "antipollution system fault" and "esp/asr fault". Showing faullt code P1181, Fuel delivery Malfunction_ high. Any ideas where to go?

[beelim]

It is cutting out because the pressure in the fuel rail is not being regulated.
The high pressure pump is driven by the camshaft while the engine is running and feeds fuel into the high pressure(HP) fuel rail. The Fuel is then fed from the rail to the injectors.
There is a fuel pressure sensor in the rail which gives info to the electronics which in turn sends a signal to the fuel pressure regulator. The regulator then lowers the pressure to 30 bar for idle and increases to 100 bar for cruising.
It lowers the pressure by opening and allowing the fuel under pressure to return to the low pressure line.
What is happening in your case is the high pressure regulator is not opening to release the pressure when the engine heats up. This is because of a design fault. The regulator consists of 2 parts , a solenoid and a plunger. The solenoid is not connected to the plunger. When commanded to increase pressure, the solenoid pushes the plunger up and closes the flow to the low pressure return line. pressure will build in the fuel rail until desired pressure is reached. The solenoid will then drop back down and the plunger is meant to drop also. In your case it doesn't and sticks in the closed position so the pressure in the HP rail keeps building until it reaches 145 bar and cuts out. The car won't start until this pressure bleeds away.
A new regulator will fix it or you can repair the one you have with some sandpaper. It comes apart easily.
If you have skype, I can show you how as I have a spare one here.
my skype is marklogan2. or email me at [email protected] and I can send you all the diagrams and info that I have.

[WidowmakerUK]

The hpi pump might not be the issue, I know for a fact the car will run without the hpi pump but will not rev above 2500rpm.

I drove my car in limp mode for 6 months while I saved for a new hpi pump it just would not Rev above 2500 rpm that's about 45 mph on the open road in 5th gear. The engine exhaust under the bonnet got very hot so remove the top plastic engine cove as it melts.

They will run on the fuel tank only pump as it push's out 8bar and if working right you can test by taking the fuse out and putting an amp meter in to test it power drain. 8amp to 10amp is about right for the tank pump.

Here is another issues these car suffer with badly is the engine ecu they become faulty and show no issue on the in car dash board. They will run for a few seconds then die, ecu code read will show fault as main fuse/relay power hold anti thieft device enabled.

The ecu is no longer available in the UK from Citroen main dealer.

Warning

Ecu doctors can not read the full ECU so a repair is not available for this ECU
Citroen part number 1938WX price was £770.72 +vat

In most cases this made the car a scraper hence why there is not many on the road now.

I have one with this issue and I am now looking for an ECU in Europe as Citroen main dealer said there is more chance of finding a new one there, but I will need to recode it.

If anyone can add to this fault to a cure that I might of missed, I am always open to ideas on a fix.
The fault started as a misfire at low rpm dip clutch Rev it that would cure the fault. It then changed to if you got in traffic it would cut out. It would start up then stop, leave it cool down for 2 hours it would start up and drive normal.
It has now gone west fully and it starts runs for a few seconds then stops no warning lights.
It appears to be on the anti thieft device side of the ECU as the reader says it has a power hold on main relay/fuse ECU internal fault permanent. I can read all data from every other ECU and I have recoded the key to the ECU in case it had lost it's key code data this made no change to the issue.

I have been through the cars wiring in case I had missed something but without a resolve to the problem.

[WidowmakerUK]

I have now solved this issue, the fault is in the bsi unit and there is 3 ways to resolve the issue.

1 is to replace the bsi with a new blank from Citroen
2 is to replace the ecu, bsi, key transponder, key Forbes as a complete kit from a running car
3 you might want to also check the pressure valve switch under the air in take on the far end of the fuel pressure rail these can also cause the same issue.

You can get some spares from eurocarcare on the internet it where I got my pressure switch as it was half the price

[nedley]

(from Beelim) It is cutting out because the pressure in the fuel rail is not being regulated.
The high pressure pump is driven by the camshaft while the engine is running and feeds fuel into the high pressure(HP) fuel rail. The Fuel is then fed from the rail to the injectors...

'Mr Beelim's' solution is correct if your engine is cutting out like mine was . This happened to me twice when I slowed down after a longish drive (middle of M25). Engine cut out, 'Antipollution Fault' & 'ESR/ASP not functioning' showed. Car could hardly move or didn't move at all. Diagnostic tests showed P1294 & P1113. This fault also occurs in Peugeot 406 HPi. Either turning the key backward or waiting an hour generally cures the problem temporarily.

The fuel pressure regulator is a fiddle to remove, but me and a friend managed it with one of us underneath to guide the universally jointed screwdriver and the other doing the loosening. Personally we didn't have much success with the repair of the regulator as it was tricky to get apart. However, you can send it off to be reconditioned or purchase a new one from:

http://f5r.co.uk/?en_citroen-peugeot-20-hpi,23

They're based in Lublin in Poland, but Krzysztof was really helpful in emails ([email protected]). Me and the friend put a new regulator iin about 6 months ago. The car has given no related problems since then.

Best wishes anyone who's still got one of these on the road.

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

Thanks for that bit of information - I'm sure it will help others in a similar situation.

[WidowmakerUK]

Yes the reply about the cutting out is the fuel pressure regulator valve, this is located on the end of the injector rail.
There is two units on the rail one is the valve the other is the pressure switch, the switch does go down sometime but if it cuts out it means the pressure has reached 135bar in the rail and cuts engine off so it does not do damage.

In the uk the cheapest I could find parts for fixing this issue was from www.eurocarcare.net
as the main dealers no long stock parts.

I hope this helps you out some what but the issue is the pressure regulator valve.


http://www.eurocarcare.net/fuel-managem ... ensor.html