1.9 N/A diesel. pump timing trouble .

[sixby2]

Hi i am new to this site i have a talbot camper with a 1.9 n/a diesel motor fitted (i think its a c15),this is not the correct motor because you cant check oil properly because dip stick/ filler is so close to fan housing on the rad. Any way here goes i bought this a few months ago and whilst it drove ok there was a lot of black smoke under load , then cam belt snapped doh.My local engine centre rebuilt head and delivered back ,engine still smoking they told me wrong ip pump has been fitted.The pump is a bosch ve with an lda on top , which if i am right is for the td ( correct me if i am wrong pls ). So a friend of mine told me timing was out so he decided to re-time and discovered ip timing 1 tooth retarted locking tool would not fit , upon correcting the timing so all locking tools fit engine will not start , if we retard ip 1 tooth it starts first time but with black smoke under load . So he then turned smoke screw 1/4 turn anti clockwise some faint white smoke then black smoke under load .Sorry for the long winded post but could someone point me in right direction to rectify smoke problem ,or could this be a pump issue.
Hope someone can help i am tearing my hair out aaaarrrrrrgggghgg..lol

[CitroJim]

The first thought that comes to me is that the engine most likely started life with a Lucas pump. The pump cradle is made to take either a Lucas or a Bosch pump but to do so the pump flange mounting studs have to be moved to their alternate positions. With the pump off you'll see six tapped holes to take the studs. Bosch pumps use one set of three and Lucas pumps the other set.

My guess is that the Bosch is mounted on on Lucas set and this has caused the timing to be very retarded. The symptoms certainly indicate this. Setting it to be "correct" on the timing holes just retards it further.

Diesels need to have their initial timing advanced beyond normal to make them start easy. Too retarded and they'll be very hard to start indeed. A very retarded engine will also sound quiet with little noticeable diesel knock.

Get the pump on it's right mountings and time to the index holes and all should be nearly good. It is just then a case of timing by ear so the idle sounds just a little 'tinkly' which clears immediately the engine is revved. The pick-up from idle when correctly times should be fast, clean, urgent and tinkle-free.

When adjusting the timing by moving the pump body relative to the cradle be sure to loosen all delivery pipe unions and re-tighten them to remove any stress in them.

Hope that helps a little...

[sixby2]

citrojim , this is one thing i have overlooked thank you for the reply . This is my first job in the morning , how good is a third set of eyes so to speak , lol. Will post back 2morro.
Thanks again .

[sixby2]

hi citrojim , had the pump off this morning and it will only mount one way . tried timing again with all three locking pins still wont go , so lock cam and flywheel and roll ip pulley back one tooth fit belt starts fine ..... do you think this is a lucas mount with bosch pump ? i have searched internet and cant find anything which would suggest the mounts were different ....

[myglaren]

Can you post some photo's, would help diagnostics enormously.

[CitroJim]

Did you not see any tapped holes in the cradle for an alternative mount position then?

Maybe it's a DW8 engine you have there which as far as I know were exclusively fitted with Lucas pumps. Maybe for this reason the cradle would only accept a Lucas pump...

Certainly all the XUD engine cradles I've seen have the alternative stud holes...

Maybe the best answer here, if indeed the cradle won't take a Bosch properly, is to positively identify the engine and procure a matching Lucas pump, delivery pipes and injectors...

[spider]

I'm inclined to think it maybe a DW8 someone has popped in as well although the dipstick being too close sounds a bit odd.

Possibly to replace the original unit, I cannot remember the code for it but I think it was based on the 2.3 unit Ford used in early Sierra's too, I could be completely wrong with this, ignore this paragraph.

I really think we need to see a picture of the engine bay to be sure. I'm also pretty sure the DW8 was Lucas only as Jim has mentioned, I cannot recall seeing one with a Bosch pump. Later C15's had the DW8 in too.

DW8 fuel filter housing are oval in shape, XUD's are square but that's assuming its kept the original (with the "new" engine) housing and not used something else completely different.

A picture is worth a thousand words.