Lexia or KWP2000? Retro fitting Cruise Control on a Xantia?

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

techtechnique
Posts: 6
Joined: 22 Jan 2012, 12:11

Lexia or KWP2000? Retro fitting Cruise Control on a Xantia?

Post by techtechnique »

Hi all.
This is my first post on this forum, so please forgive my ignorance if this topic has already been covered. I have searched this this topic but found nothing similar so perhaps not...

I have a 1999 series 2 Xantia 2.0 HDi 90 LX and although I only bought it as a cheap hack for work, I'm finding myself getting attached to it to the point where I'm planning to fix all the niggling issues with it in order to make it my permanent ride.

Firstly I've read up on retro-fitting cruise control as I do a lot of motorway driving and would be a great mod if possible. I know it's documented that the HDi's don't support Cruise, but while replacing the clutch cable clip to the pedal, I noticed a little switch on the pedal mount. From past experiences with other cars equipped with CC, the switch on the clutch pedal is solely for the purposes of de-activating the cruise, unless on the Zanty it has a different function? (And before I get a load of replies telling me to sell her and buy a C5, I prefer the looks of the Xantia!)

I've had a look in the steering column cowling and can see no obvious unused connector for a CC stalk, but I know this doesn't mean it's not there!
The stalks aren't mega-money second-hand but I'd rather not waste my hard earned unnecessarily!

Secondly, the remote lock/unlock on my key doesn't work. I've replaced the batteries without success and even got a replacement circuit board from an identical key (my friend works at a car dismantlers...). Apparently the plip on the series 2 models can only be programmed by either the main agent (costing £52) or by the Lexia tool, which brings me to my next question:

I've seen the Lexia 3 kit on sale on fleaby for around £50 (new from the lexia3 website for $99), but the hardware doesn't look too dissimilar to the KWP2000 ECU flasher. Does anyone know if the Lexia software (or Peugeot Planet) will work with a KWP2000? The reason being is that I already have a KWP and so could save some additional costs if so.

Finally, has anyone ever fitted the intercooler from an HDi 110 car to an HDi 90? Before remapping my ECU I'd like to make sure the induction is at an optimum!

If anyone can help I'd be very grateful.

User avatar
DickieG
Monaco's youngest playboy
Posts: 4896
Joined: 25 Nov 2006, 10:15
x 14

Re: Lexia or KWP2000? Retro fitting Cruise Control on a Xant

Post by DickieG »

Welcome to the forum, cruise was only offered on Xantia's with the 2.0 petrol engine auto or the 3.0 auto, no manual Xantia had it fitted. The cruise fitted at the factory used the old fashioned method of a manual linkage pulling on the throttle, on cars where cruise was offered on HDi's (newer than Xantia) they use electronics/computers and multiplex wiring to operate cruise so there is no simple way of fitting cruise to a HDi Xantia other than by using an aftermarket kit. That then brings about another problem of insurance as it is an aftermarket modification which from my own investigations insurance companies are either not willing to allow the modification or will charge a fortune for it. If cruise was viable for a HDi Xantia I would have fitted it years ago.

addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
x 4

Post by addo »

The two plugs partially wrapped in foam here, are for Hyperactive (silver-grey) and Carouse Control (browny-red).

Image

I excavated them from being stuffed under the dash lower lip.

User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 7220
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 23:03
x 375

Re: Lexia or KWP2000? Retro fitting Cruise Control on a Xant

Post by xantia_v6 »

DickieG wrote:cruise was only offered on Xantia's with the 2.0 petrol engine auto or the 3.0 auto, no manual Xantia had it fitted.
I believe that it was available in some LHD markets (hence the provision for the switch on the clutch pedal), but perhaps not with the HDI engines.

techtechnique
Posts: 6
Joined: 22 Jan 2012, 12:11

Re: Lexia or KWP2000? Retro fitting Cruise Control on a Xant

Post by techtechnique »

Thanks for the quick replies!

Is the throttle control not drive by wire on this car?

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41632
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1079

Re: Lexia or KWP2000? Retro fitting Cruise Control on a Xant

Post by CitroJim »

Some manual S2 Xantias did indeed have the wiring. I've seen it on an S2 2.1 TD Exclusive recently.
techtechnique wrote: Is the throttle control not drive by wire on this car?
Yes, but like the 2.1TD it is via a pot (variable resistor) operated via a throttle cable. On the HDi the throttle pot can be found under the airbox, toward the rear. If the throttle pot quadrant (the bit the cable wraps around) has a ball attached and a bracket for the pneumatic bellows and the wiring exists then in theory cruise could be retrofitted.

In addition to the column socket, you would find a connector under the driver's seat for the ECU and two connectors under the nearside wing for the vacuum pump.

Then you'd need to find a donor for the ECU , bellows, switch, relay and vacuum pump. Finding a clutch pedal switch may be like looking for hen's teeth too!

This thread on cruise faultfinding (aimed at the 3.0L V6) may help..

The whole system is troublesome at the best of times and I wonder if retrofitting is really worth the effort.

techtechnique
Posts: 6
Joined: 22 Jan 2012, 12:11

Re: Lexia or KWP2000? Retro fitting Cruise Control on a Xant

Post by techtechnique »

Wow, it does sound like a whole load of hassle!

I am surprised that the French would go to the trouble of creating different wiring looms for the different models within the range though...

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
x 4

Post by addo »

I generally find it both useful and reliable! There's plenty of times it has stopped me from speeding (by avoiding speed creep), or got me to a destination faster with constant speed

Worth the effort to install IMO.

techtechnique
Posts: 6
Joined: 22 Jan 2012, 12:11

Re: Lexia or KWP2000? Retro fitting Cruise Control on a Xant

Post by techtechnique »

If I can source all the necessary bits to do the conversion I'll certainly consider putting in the effort!
Which control stalk would I need to find?
The C5 one is the same as a Pug 307 one and don't sell for huge money 2nd hand, but I suspect it's not the right type for the Zanty.
Do any of you fine chaps know anything about the Lexia tool?

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
x 4

Post by addo »

No need for Lexia. It's a dumb, standalone system.

Stalk and fixing screws from a non-multiplex 406 or any Xantia. I cut the hole in the shroud after eyeballing the faint outline made by the moulding "plug" and scribing around it. Have a look for the plug socket in your dash right side, to suit the pushbutton. Should be yellow on a Series II, and have nine female pins (mostly empty). Look for the violet relay socket beside your underdash fusebox - inside the swing-down panel.

xmexclusive
Posts: 419
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 23:50

Re: Lexia or KWP2000? Retro fitting Cruise Control on a Xant

Post by xmexclusive »

In 1994 Citroen put into production an early version of electronic cruise on the XM 2.5TD.
The cruise control uses the fly-by-wire throttle pot and control routines in the Bosch ECU.
This car is a manual so a clutch switch has to be added to the system.
It was only available from factory on Exclusive models but dealer retrofit (£250) was available on VSX's.
Retrofit consisted in fitting a control stalk and a dash switch (£50ish trade) to existing wiring plugs.
Oh and drilling the stalk hole in the column shroud. Shroud already has stalk mounting points.
Dash wiring plugs look very similar to those in Addo's photo.
Enabling was dealer black art for which they charged highly.
Enabling actually consisted of turning the ignition on!!!!
All 2.5 ECU's contained the cruise routines and they were enabled as soon as the ECU saw the switches live.
Lucas followed fairly quickly with a competing electronic cruise based on the EPIC ECU.

These early electronic cruise systems use the same wiring and switches that Jim's earlier Vac based system uses.
They just get rid of all the unreliable parts of the system.
I suspect that the LHD cruise variants on Xantia that Addo mentions used this type of system.

Once the cruise software was developed and proved I suspect that it was included in all later variants of Bosch ECU for Citroen.
Far simpler to leave it unused if not needed than to have to modify the software later.
In 1995 Citroen produced a production run of LHD 2.5TD XM's for selected customers in the French market only.
These were fully multiplexed vehicles so the 2.5 ECU may well be able to run cruise on a multiplexed system as well.

John

addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
x 4

Post by addo »

Interesting; I thought the motorised throttles came much later.

Dash switch yellow plug with company, being the Hydractive (blue) and ultrasonic defeat (blue):

Image

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41632
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 1079

Re: Lexia or KWP2000? Retro fitting Cruise Control on a Xant

Post by CitroJim »

John, that's incredibly interesting :-D
xmexclusive wrote: Lucas followed fairly quickly with a competing electronic cruise based on the EPIC ECU.
Never knew that :) So, I wonder if you have a 2.1TD Xantia and the stalk wiring is there and you plug a stalk in.. I wonder?

The only thing is, a 2.1TD I helped break recently had all the wiring present for the Hella pneumatic cruise normally found on automatic petrol Xantias.

We now need a 2.1TD guinea pig to see if it can work...

techtechnique
Posts: 6
Joined: 22 Jan 2012, 12:11

Re: Lexia or KWP2000? Retro fitting Cruise Control on a Xant

Post by techtechnique »

So... if it may be a slim possibility that the 2.1td supports cruise, would it be a fair assumption that the series 2 2.0hdi with its' odb2 connectivity, may also support this?

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
x 4

Post by addo »

How far away is the car? Can you go looking for a connector or two?