xantia rear brakes approach

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aerodynamica
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previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
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1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
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1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

xantia rear brakes approach

Post by aerodynamica »

So I have the usual corrosion issue and now have new bolts to replace the snappage bolts. I was wondering what the thoughts were on cutting the bolt head off to ease the stretch, slide the caliper off then work the bolts out while they then have no tension.

Seems a plan since I already have the new bolts waiting.

Any probs with this you think?
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Re: Xantia rear brakes approach

Post by citroenxm »

it completely depends on how severe the corrosion is.. the bolts may still come out easyilly enough... try them first yiu have nothing to loose sliding the caliper off may prorpse another issue... the caliper brake feed pipe union may NOT undo easilly.. it could twist the pipe. or be so tight it wont undo.. so id check that first before grinding any bolt heads off....
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Re: Xantia rear brakes approach

Post by dangerousbrian »

If you remove the pads & replace back the bolt which holds the pads in, you can remove the caliper with out loosing your fluid, whilst you change the disc's, Make sure you use a breaker bar & If the bolts shear, then you have the difficult job if drilling them out, this happened to me but lucky out of the 2 sides only one bolt sheared & I Started by using smaller drills & finally a Colbalt 7.8mm drill & M9 X 1.25 Tap to do the job, it’s hard getting hold of a 1.25 pitch tap, , make sure you use a 1st, 2nd tap them a plug tap & don't do it in the snow like i did that was the worst bit "snowing at the time"
1996"N" Xantia Dimension Series MK1, 1.8 16v JP4 LFY
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Re: Xantia rear brakes approach

Post by 411514 »

I have just done this job on my c5, it was an absolute nightmare. Youl probably find that the bolts are seized solid inside the caliper (loctited at the factory i believe). I would really recommend getting hold of both new bolts and new calipers as it really wil save you hours of hardwork. To get my old calipers off i just about managed to unscrew the bolts a few mm to leave enough room behind the caliper to get a hacksaw in an chop through the bolts. The remaining length of bolt inside the swinging arm unscrews easily enough with pliers, but as for removing the chopped off bolt from the caliper is very tricky indeed. If you are reusing calipers you should probably swap them side to side as the corrosion on the mating surface can be quite severe, mine had eaten down a good few mm into the caliper, remember to get a good coating of coppergrease or high temp sealant between the mating surface of the caliper and swingarm on reassembly, sam.
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Re: Xantia rear brakes approach

Post by citroenxm »

though the job and corrosion is simmilar on c5s they do seem worse on them. im not positive but i dont think xantia bolts are locktite on... just bolted.. ive certainly not seen evedance of locktite on xantia bolts when out anyway..
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

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previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: Xantia rear brakes approach

Post by aerodynamica »

Blimey, fair do's folks. I'm approaching with your wisdom
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Re: Xantia rear brakes approach

Post by xmexclusive »

I would not recommend cutting the bolt heads and removing the calipers.
The reason is that high tensile bolts are also more brittle in bending.
The bolt weak point is the thinnest cross section, the threads.
The presence of the caliper to support the bolt length minimises the amount the bolt can be bent while you are trying to undo it.
The brittleness is also relevant when high tensile steel is machined.
As a result the bolt threads are much more likely to have micro cracking present than ordinary ductile steel.
Bending fatigue loading on the bolts in service can grow these cracks.
Just the service life the brake bolts get.
When undoing the bolt a large torsional load is applied to the thread weak point.
Adding severe bending as well could make sure the bolt snaps at the threads.
This is why Jim's message about gently applied altenating direction force is so important.
Because the micro cracking can grow with each loading the bolts are best replaced with new and not reused.

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Re: Xantia rear brakes approach

Post by 411514 »

John speaking from what is the case with the c5 the problem with removing the bolts is not how tight they are in the swingarm but how they are jammed in the caliper, as such if it is possible to crop the heads of the bolts or even better cut behind the caliper and remove the caliper thus removing the restriction to rotation then this should not be a problem at all, i found that the bolts unscrewed almost by hand from the swingarm. I had to resort to doing so simply as the bolts did not budge despite a good long breaker bar on them and in the end the head did shear off just by doing this, although i have not done this job on a xantia and it does seem that maybe the job is not quite so troublesome, sam
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Post by addo »

I can't remember if it were described here or on Aussief******s, but there was mention of the French approach to C5 rear calipers; it involved chopping off the old ones, sending them off to scrap and fitting new calipers.
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Re: Xantia rear brakes approach

Post by xmexclusive »

Fair point on C5's.
No experience on them but gluing the bolt shank is a whole different game.
No evidence of any shank gluing on XM an Xantia bolts.
Thats was the target of my comments.

John
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Re: Xantia rear brakes approach

Post by dangerousbrian »

If you find your new rear pads don't fit & you may have to file them, it's because the mating surface of the caliper has Corrosion that has built up behind the caliper & swing arm, which ends up stretching the caliper bolts, make sure you scrap off the corrosion, it tends to look like a gasket thats behing the caliper but it's corrosion that has formed
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Re: Xantia rear brakes approach

Post by reblack68 »

When I did the job on the Xantia I broke three of the bolts- one proud, one flush and one sub-flush. My friend managed to MiG weld nuts onto all of them, including the sub-flush one. It was a bit of a fight and they all needed the nuts re-welded at least once, but they all came out without any drilling or damage to the threads- the heat generated by the welding helps.
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Re: Xantia rear brakes approach

Post by KennyW »

Why not change the bolts for longer ones and secure with nut :?:

The rear shields could be remove and additional holes drilled in the shields.

Any thougts, I'm still contemplating doing this on my rears :wink:

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Location: Glasgow
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My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: Xantia rear brakes approach

Post by aerodynamica »

Hi Kenny, it's an idea but I don't think you'd get the axial load on the bolts right. I.may have to attack these brakes if it comes up on Wednesday's MOT.. here's hoping not..
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Re: Xantia rear brakes approach

Post by reblack68 »

KennyW wrote:Why not change the bolts for longer ones and secure with nut :?:

The rear shields could be remove and additional holes drilled in the shields.

Any thougts, I'm still contemplating doing this on my rears :wink:

Kenny
The bolts are M9, you might struggle to find longer bolts or nuts to go on them.
Richard

No French cars of my own at present.
Care of a 1994 205 D.
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