Xantia troubles as luck would have it.

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Hi, I was all set to collect my little project tomorrow on a hired trailer with my S2 xantia 1.9TD and low and behold the xantia started playing up today first of all the engine management light kept commin on intermittently and I noticed it took longer and longer to gain any speed now it seems that the Turbo isn't working at all and she will only do about 80mph after half an hour of acceleration and foot on the floor.

Nothing else seems to be wrong as if that isn't enough at the moment.

first question please?
How serious is this should I stop driving my Xantia completely? the engine management light lights after 35 Mph and stays on occasionally I can hear the turbo scramming like heck as if it is struggling to turn always above 35mph.

second question Please?

would it be safe to continue to drive but at lower speeds I am thinking about picking up my 2CV tomorrow on a trailer that's all.

I would appreciate any help and thank you in advance.

regards
Nigel.

[CitroJim]

I'd very much suspect Nigel, if you ran diagnostics you'd find you have a timing motion fault.

This is invariably caused by low fuel pressure; the result of a plugged fuel filter. The symptoms certainly suggest this.

Pop a new filter in and see how it goes...

Are you still running it on WVO?

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Hello Jim,

Thanks for answering, I did suspect the fuel filter and changed it this morning, I topped up the tank with diesel so I am running 50/50 ratio at the moment because of the cold nights we have had.
the Eng starts fine and runs OK just no get up and go at all, the engine diagnostics light stays on above 35 mph off again when idling she drives like a 1.7 BX at the moment it was fine last night when I got home after a blast on the A14 I noticed a revers lamp blown then and discovered it was the lead that runs across from the O/s to the N/s through the boot door it was mucky so I cleaned it.
cheers Nigel
Jim Ive been very dopey today worried about bringing home My welded 2cv tomorrow, I know what your going to say next your going to say tank strainer, to late Ive just thought of it, and low and behold its very very clogged up, I seem to remember reading somewhere that you must clean the tank strainer every year if your running on veg, I still dont know if this will help But I'll let you know anyway. I can only pray it hasn't caused any serious damage to the engine.


cheers Nigel.

[CitroJim]

I thought you might well have gone for the filter Nigel

In that case, as there's not much that brings the EML on in a 1.9TD, the Needle Lift Sensor is suspect and causing the timing to be wrong.

Check the plug on the sensor (in No.3 injector) and then measure the resistance of the sensor. It should be around 100 ohms but this is not an exhaustive test.

You really need to Lexia it to be 100% sure it's working...

Does the engine sound quiet for a diesel and a bit smoky? If so this suggests it's running retarded and another pointer to a duff Needle Lift Sensor.

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Jim,

I have just cleaned the tank strainer and believe it or not its even worse now, the engine rocks back and forth quite badly as you accelerate almost as if it is the timing,

That Cable you mention Jim it has been chaffing on a engine lift bracket and touching earth by the looks of it for quite a while.
I wonder if this would do damage?

there is plenty of fuel reaching the pump the K-Light is still lit on the dash now as soon as you touch the throttle.

thanks Jim, Ps its running smokey as hell.

Nigel.

[CitroJim]

Ahh that's good Nigel, looks like it's the NLS then All the symptoms are exact for it. You're running retarded and that accounts for the bumpiness and smoke.

The cable chafing won't have done any permanent damage and hopefully fixing it will make it all good

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Thanks Jim

I was feeling pretty low earlier, its amazing isn't it how sensitive these cars become I saved scrimped and scrapped to have the 2cv welded and when time comes to go collect it the Xantia throws a wobbly.
I am just happy its not the pump going home. my dewatering process has paid off.
any ideas what the cost will be to replace this Jim please?
Oh and the reading on the meter was between 110 and 112 ohms.
thank you for Help Jim.
Best wishes.
Nigel.

[Xaccers]

We had similar with Jenny when I first got her. Needle lift sensor was intermittently working so sometimes she ran fine, other times she sounded like a bag-o-nails.
When the ECU can read the NLS and TDC properly the light goes out.
Cassy had it once when I'd not changed her fuel filter for about 10K, wouldn't rev over 3000rpm, if I tried the EML came on.

[CitroJim]

Cassy had it once when I'd not changed her fuel filter for about 10K, wouldn't rev over 3000rpm, if I tried the EML came on.

That's it. A 'Timing Motion Fault' caused by insufficient pressure to correctly operate the hydraulic part of the pump timing device.

[CitroJim]

Oh and the reading on the meter was between 110 and 112 ohms.
thank you for Help Jim.
Best wishes.
Nigel.

Nigel, did you see my reply in the other thread on this subject? Kev's ECU Connector Thread

[falling-out-with-my-car]

well I'm not shouting to loud about this because my luck hasn't been brilliant for the last couple of days it seems if I am to be kicked I am going to be kicked properly this time.

I have been starting the engine on the xantia a couple of times a day and letting her warm up idle speed seems normal and no lumpiness at idle, I read another thread where Citro Jim had given advice on checking the taco whilst the engine is running with the lift sensor disconnected which would confirm the TDC sensor was OK or broken so I did this and low and behold the engine started to settle down I guess disconnecting the lift sensor and revving the engine caused over fueling which cleared a blockage somewhere and a big puff of smoke exited the exhaust and my back gate 20 ft away completely disappeared from view, the EML light went out and stayed out I reconnected the lift sensor plug and tag tied it to the engine lift bracket, I took the car for an Italian tune up on the A14 and the engine is performing normally now, strange isn't it.

I would still like to identify to TDC sensor plug somehow and make sure it has a drink of switch cleaner .

Today I shall drain all of the veg oil from the tank bar enough to get me to a garage and give the engine a good fresh drink of diesel then I am going to add two bottles of Diesel Magic to the tank and hope this flushes out the injectors-and cleans them out.

I now remember what I did wrong I didn't hear it happen because of engine noise but I think it is what happened, I take my car to the car wash because it is an estate and it takes rather a long time to wash it I also leave the engine running a habit I learnt from the days of the BX which needed the engine running to keep the suspension up, I think the engine overheated and the fans kicked in spraying water all through the radiator onto the engine as this is when the EML light came on, I am hoping that the issue has gone and it was maybe a short circuit somewhere owing to water ingress from the fans running in the car wash, I will still pluck up the courage to check my ECU plug & socket it seems that it should be checked for corrosion at some point, cor blimey nearly 95 quid for 65 litres of diesel disgusting, thanks everyone for your help lets hope the dreaded EML light stays off?

regards Nigel.

[CitroJim]

Excellent news Nigel

Hope she continues good now

You will find the TDC sensor plug sitting on top of the gearbox, toward the rear. It's a light brown three pin connector.

[Xaccers]

Nigel it's best to check the ECU plug and socket sooner rather than later as any corrosion that is left alone will actually eat the contacts off.
For those times where I need a bit of fuel and costco isn't open, I normally choose v-power, a bit more expensive but it's paperwork shows it contains their version of red-ex in it, and Cassy seems to prefer it to other brands.
Definitely a good idea to give it a diesel flush for a tank full and add injector cleaner as you say

For the TDC, remove the airbox and first induction pipe and it will give you a much clearer view down to the top/back of the gearbox (engine end of the gearbox)

[falling-out-with-my-car]

As you say Jim she has continued without fault today, I have however drained all trace of veg from the tank using two 12 volt nicad packs a fast charger and by splicing into the electric fuel pump wires I fitted two years ago with pump, in place of the squeezy bulb which kept leaking.
I drained 50 litres of veg and diesel mix and replaced it with straight diesel, blimey I forgot how quick the car was on Diesel.
it must be two years now since I have used straight diesel, it doesn't pay off by the looks of things.
A little word of warning to anyone that experiences this engine management light and lumpy running I drove home with this lumpy running about 7 miles on a dual carriageway doing about 60 mph this caused the engine to overheat because the ignition was retarded my expansion bottle dumped 2 litres of fluid out through the cap this in turn poured its way into the ecu plastic container steam cleaning the ecu, not great because the plastic container wasn't sealed properly.
I have since as a precaution bought a new expansion bottle/radiator cap and managed to close the ECU container box.
I also added 2 litres of anti-freeze to the expansion bottle and let it circulate with the cap off for a bit until the level went down and topped it up again before placing the new lid. I now have no air bubbles in my fuel lines with veg I did all of the time, the veg rattles around the tank and fills with tiny air bubbles not great for any fuel system, just take a 1 litre bottle bought for cooking and shake it and see how much air gets trapped in it.
I shall use veg again but I will now air on the side of caution and using more diesel or a slightly higher ratio of Rug to Veg oil in the winter time, I was using 20% Petrol last winter and she was fine, I hope the diesel will condition the seals now and expand them and the horrible sensation of my car is broke help!! feeling stays away for good.

It is time I treated the Xantia to some maintenance the new toy My 2cv special has been stealing the limelight and the money for a while. I did have a moment of worry that I would only have a 2cv to drive forever more and I am so tall I need a tin opener to get into and out of the 2cv.

Thank you to Xac, Jim & everyone else that gave advice on here and the Citroen car club website to.
it is always much appreciated and just goes to show that without such forums we would all be in very deep water and there probably wouldn't be many of the older Citroens left on the roads for us to enjoy.
Xac I will check the ECU when it stops raining we always have a down pour when Nigel opens the Bonnet to fix something

thanks again.

Best wishes Nigel.

[CitroJim]

Yes, the pump will default to full retard for 'safety' but as you have seen, running retarded does make the engine run very hot. The diesel will still be burning when the exhaust valves open and a lot of burning carries on in the exhaust manifold and exhaust.

Driven at night like this and you may have seen a firework display out of your rear window!

Thank you to Xac, Jim & everyone else that gave advice on here and the Citroën car club website to.
it is always much appreciated and just goes to show that without such forums we would all be in very deep water and there probably wouldn't be many of the older Citroëns left on the roads for us to enjoy.

Thank you Nigel, that’s highly appreciated