Second Hand Gearbox advice

[ecohouse1]

As my Gearbox is crunching in & out of 3rd, thought I might look or a good second hand one - saw this which is only 90 mins from me. Do you think the Gearbox would fit in the Xant?

Also is there anyway to test the box when out of the car?

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-moto ... A3600CBB10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CitroJim]

Yes, it would but sadly there's no way to check it's good without doing a full stripdown and assessment of it. The best you can do is check all gears engage and that it turns easily on the input shaft and that there's almost no lateral play on the input shaft. This amounts to around 1% of a full assessment of its condition.

As far as I know, there is no easy way to test the synchros (which has failed in yours - common) or the condition of the bearings and final drive.

A full strip by a skilled gearbox engineer is required for that.

In my view, buying a used 'box out of the car is risky. Best to try and source one from a late accident-damaged otherwise tidy car.

A gearbox from a Xantia 90 HDi is good in a 1.9TD if you can find a good 'un.

Third gear synchromesh failure is a very common problem on a BE3 and many will be showing signs by now.

It's not fatal and they will soldier on for ever like it. Just learn to double-declutch!

[ecohouse1]

Thanks Jim, I appreciate the advice.

I suppose my worry is the known clutch clip weakness, and extra clutch changes are an extra strain on the cable, especially as the clutch feels like its near the end of its life as its quite stiff. I cricked my neck into the footwell and its a white clip and lots of scratching in the area so I hope that its been replaced with the uprated clip!

I had been thinking that when I replace the clutch I might stick on another box as the old one has to come off anyway.

Was the BE3 box not on the BX's - I never head any issues with either BX and they had well over 100k on them. MY TD has 90k miles and is a real cruncher. I am getting the hang of double declutching but still get it wrong occasionally!!

Is the clutch clip snapping that wrecks the Xany boxes?

Cheers

[Xaccers]

The clip snaps when the clutch is past its replacement date and has gotten too heavy.

[uhn113x]

Worn synchros can be overcome easily if you double-declutch as we had to do with 1920s cars with crash boxes. Gives you time to sort out yours or find a replacement. I have always tended to DD on all downward changes on any car - just force of habit when I learnt to drive when I was 17 and bought a 1928 Austin Seven for a tenner!

It's always a shame if the previous owner has used the gearstick like a village pump handle.

[CitroJim]

The BE3 uses the old fashioned cone synchro clutches rather than the more sturdy baulk ring sort that most other 'boxes use. These clutches are made of quite soft alloy working into hardened steel faces.

They will wear very quickly if overheated or abused and such may happen if the clutch clip breaks and you try to force a gear. the clutch will spin, get hot and wear down to nothing in no time at all. I've seen them warped and the hardened steel taper blued with heat!

It was a common problem in 2005GTis and that was almost always down to enthusiastic driving; your 'village pump' Mike! Naturally BX owners would never do that and their clutch operating mechanisms were more robust too...

Here's what a worn one looks like:



On a good one radial lines will be visible on the cones. In the one above they have all bee worn away.

It's not too hard to replace a cone in a BE3. The only problem is that they cost the earth from Citroen but a donor 'box that's got a different fault may yield a good spare. I have one such 'box here with wrecked diff bearings from running dry of oil but the synchro cones are absolutely fine.

How to do the job can be found here

[Timmo]

be3's were in the bx's, mine has one, also in the 205/309/405 range, some were be1 with lift up collar and reverse above first, but many later were be3 box's,
the 3rd synchro in mine has started showing signs of wear (bx) i opted for the thicker gear oil side rather than any strip downs, iirc the std oil in the box is the ep 75-90?? mines full of 75 or 80, cant quite remember as twas a good few years ago now!! as mentioned above the synchros wear is a common issue on them!

[CitroJim]

You should really only ever use 75W/80 oil in all BE and M series gearboxes. Thicker oil can be a contributory to synchro wear, especially when cold.

I've seen MA 'boxes filled with Dexron ATF and in fact in a BE3 with slightly dodgy synchros that may well help a little as Dexron has friction modifiers intended to help the brake bands in autoboxes grip better. I'd say give a 5o/50 mix of Dexron II and 75W/80 a go as an experiment. Cone clutches and brake bands aren't that conceptually different.

It's very possible this property is what helps a 4HP20 autobox on it's way to gearbox heaven when filled with the stuff. They don't have any brake bands in them.

I've never tried LT71141 in a B or M series manual box but I see no reason why it shouldn't be OK, apart from the cost of the stuff...

[addo]

You're kidding?

The KV specs are seriously different for 75W-80 compared to LT71141. The latter would barely cling at all once warm.