Weird Berlingo stuff

Post by **Jon** » 27 Aug 2003, 18:51

2002 Berlingo Multispace 1.9D DW8 engine.
Coming up the A30 in Cornwall at about 70mph when I feel the car hesitating badly (like a blocked carby on a petrol car). I then have to slow right down due to a traffic jam and notice that the tickover is slower than normal. When traffic moves away I accelerate, and the engine is making a terrible noise like an ancient Transit diesel, a really coarse dieselly noise.
I pull up at the first possible place (high stress due to 1 x screaming baby, 1 x 2 year old and Mrs W) and investigate under the bonnet, but can see nothing amiss. Decided that as I had just filled up with diesel on the Coast some 20 miles before I would drain the diesel filter. Did so, primed, then restarted, and primed again.
Berlingo then ran faultlessly for 210 miles home.
Talked to Dave Bamber about this today, and he had exactly the same symptoms with his Berlingo. He said that it could be cured by turning off the ignition for 30 seconds! Dave had it checked out by Citroen, including fault codes, but no fault found!!
My thoughts are in the region of the injector that sends the signal to the ECU? Certainly power was down, there was smoke and the thing felt like it was running on 3. Maybe by stopping and turning off the ignition the ECU is resetting?[?]
Unfortunately, Citroen not very interested due to various warranty invalidations, [:(!] so I am trying to find a solution for the future.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 27 Aug 2003, 19:39

Well jon - I suppose its only a matter of time till cars need re-booting like computers.
I drive an appalling computer controlled forklift made by a company who farmed their design out to a German car company who know little about industrial trucks. Its quite easy to confuse the computer (by moving off too soon after turning it on) and the thing then ceases to function properly. The answer is always the same, turn it of, count 20 and start again.
The same problem arises when the joystick controls start to fail which they do regularily. Presumably sparking as the pot tracks deteriorate causes the computer to crash.
So the possibilities I think are sparking somewhere or a faulty connection, or just general computer confusion.
jeremy
Jeremy

Post by **Jon** » 27 Aug 2003, 20:16

You could be right, it may be confused.
The "joys" of the Multiplex system sometimes mean that the front electric windows (which are supposed to remain live for 30 secs after the ignition is off) do just that.Fine. But then I go out to the car some hours later at night and both electric window switches are illuminated green!! Only answer to solve that is to start the car and turn it off again, and that cures it!!!
Again "no fault found" when I had the thing checked at the first "service". Having said that, the Mux does do some really nice things like turn the interior lights off to save the battery if you leave the doors or tailgate open after a period of time (which we often do for example on a campsite).
Pretty baffling vehicle really, handy, loads of room, but some niggly problems. The ZX is 10 years old but more trustworthy.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 27 Aug 2003, 22:03

Forklifts designed in Germany but made in france 3.5 years ago. I don't think they are multiplexed.
We don't seem to get many complaints on here about multiplexing but maybe those cars haven't filtered through to enthusiasts yet. Gremlin hunting is fun enough on ordinary electrics - I can see I'm going to have years of fun when I meet a multiplexed car!
jeremy

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 28 Aug 2003, 04:22

has the latest software been downloaded to the injection ECU ? just a thought.it was common on xantias for a bad connection at the 2pin plug for the needle lift sensor in the injector,solution to cut out the connector & solder the wires together,dont think it was similar symptoms though.was it a noise like the timing was out ? a possible advance electrovalve fault ??

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 28 Aug 2003, 05:00

I had a strange problem with somewhat similar symptoms on a Mazda E-2200 a few years ago.
Motor would run perfectly then seem to lose power then sometimes just come right or alternatively without warning just stop.
Spoke to experts in the field who replaced glow plugs, wanted to overhaul the injection system & suggested overhauling the motor to one who even suggested both motor AND injectors ("ya carn't be too shure ya know") When it stopped, all I had to do was drain the filter & hand prime & it started every time...until one day, it didn't. At this point, all the above suggestions & repairs were either suggested or tried without success.
I got sick of paying monkeys in gold so decided to have a look myself & lo & behold it turned out to be an internal break in a wire where it came off the main harness & went to the fuel cut out solenoid.
Why did it always restart (up to that point) whenever I drained the filter & primed the pump? Simple once you found the problem; the offending wire was moved across a couple of inches so as to gain access to the primer & filter.
Got nothing to do with a Berlingo admittedly, but may be worth considering something similar as a starting point in this case as an internal break or corrosion of the wire strands could cause false readings from sensors and/or at the computer.[8]
Alan S[:)]

Post by **Jon** » 28 Aug 2003, 18:37

Thanks Guys.
Sounds like either I need to find a "friendly" Dealer or an independent with Proxia/Nexia and access to the software updates!!!
I have taken advice on this matter on the grounds that the Berlingo is still within its 3 year warranty; which I have invalidated apparently on the grounds that I did not get the 10k service done at a Dealer, in addition the oil/filter/air/diesel filters have all been changed before they are due. All using Genuine parts. It seems that as this work has nothing to do with the current problems, any warranty claim in respect of the software update, injector wiring etc should still be covered.
I'm driving it down to Porthleven tomorrow night. If it goes wrong again i'm going to get out of it as I hate cars that are unreliable.Might trade it for an HDi although don't know I want another.

Dave Bamber · Post by **Dave Bamber** » 29 Aug 2003, 01:52

[}:)]MMM HDI, you know you want one..........[:D][:o)][B)]
MrB

Post by **Jon** » 29 Aug 2003, 20:19

Spoke to Louis Barbour about this, and he had a customer with thr very same problem.
Its caused by the injector (or its wiring), the one that acts as the knock sensor. The cure was to replace the injector and then reset the ECU, apparently.
I'm going to see if this can be done under warranty. [8)]

sponix · Post by **sponix** » 16 Feb 2005, 19:21

How do you reset the ECU? Is it simply a case of removing the battery or is it more complicated than that?

Post by **Jon** » 16 Feb 2005, 19:58

This particular problem was eventually solved by getting a software update done at a Citroen dealer.
The ECU can't be "reset". Any fault codes should be cleared using Proxia (although aftermarket code readers may work).

sponix · Post by **sponix** » 17 Feb 2005, 15:43

Well, as you know I have been having injector problems...all four were replaced under warranty and after reading this thread I thought I'd inspect the injector wiring "just in case". The injectors have been behaving themselves for the last 500 miles..
I wiggled the knock-sensor wire, unplugged it and plugged it back in. I also wiggled the left hand most ECU connector (As it looked a bit grubby).
Couldn't see anything obviously amiss so started my journey....
Within a mile the car started to misfire! The misfire then cleared itself.
Obviously it *could* be a coincidence but seems there is something dodgy with the engine management system.
As the knock sensor inject was replaced I'm assuming it's a dodgy (Dirty?) connector somewhere.
Does the ECU *need* a software update or was it just done for good measure?
Is there a version number for the latest software update? I don't want to get it reprogrammed with old code.

sponix · Post by **sponix** » 17 Feb 2005, 15:44

"needle lift sensor" is this the sensor on the fourth injector?

ebod · Post by **ebod** » 17 Feb 2005, 23:05

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sponix</i>

"needle lift sensor" is this the sensor on the fourth injector?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sponix, I've got a post active at the moment about my Synergie(Evasion) 1.9TD and it definately follows the same symptoms of Jon's Berlingo. The first indication I had was July last year after a lot of driving in France. It had a short spell of start failures then the rev counter started malfunctioning. All went okay then it came back with avengeance in December.
Re your post , AFAIK the lift sensor is on No3 injector. In any case its the only one with a wire coming out of it.
I'm intrigued as to which model car you are referring to though, because your signature has cars that were pre-ECU[?]

sponix · Post by **sponix** » 18 Feb 2005, 15:48

Yeah, I haven't updated the sig yet..It's a 1.9 Berlingo DW8 and it has the sensor on No 4 Injector, neareds the gearbox (Not 3).
What I'm trying to find out is if it's worth getting the latest software uploaded? Does it help overcome the problems that we are encountering? Is there some sort of software "filter" in the new upload?
Another question: does the ECU learn about the characteristics of your engine or does it use a pre-programmed algorythm? I know it takes readings from sensors and adjusts the engine accordingly but does it "remember" the characteristics?
What I'm getting at is will it remember the duff data it gets from a faulty sensor and mis-adjust the engine accordingly even when the sensor is replaced or is this information cleared whenever the engine is turned off?