C5?

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Peter.N.
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C5?

Post by Peter.N. »

Hi folks

I wonder if you would be good enough to give me the benifit of your experience. I am considering buying a C5 :? :oops: but although I was an electronics engineer all my working life, they scare me witless, I grew up with valves and components you could see. I have seen quite a number for sale as spares or repair due to 'unrepairable' electronic problems, is this a fact or do the dealers just dont know what they are doing.

Since buying my 406 I am now quite happy with the 8 valve Hdi engine so that shouldn't be a problem but I need to be reassured or otherwise that I can cope with the rest of the car. Over the years I have got to know and love the XMs but I fear they are coming to the end of their life now and I have been trying to find a car with as good a ride, without success, the 406 is lovely to drive but the suspension is so hard in comparison.

Which magazine fell on the mat yesterday morning and there was a feature on car comfort which most manufacturers don't seem to bother obout now, the third most comfortable estate car was the C5, after the E class and Skoda! I wish it had come out earlier, would have saved me a lot of time and trouble.

Peter
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Re: C5?

Post by Clogzz »

Hi Peter,

With a lifetime of electronicking, you will find the C5 the most frustrating machine ever. :evil:
Absolutely nothing can be done if the electronics fail, and the only way to limit the electronickery is to have the 2 litre diesel with a manual gearbox.

The hydraulics are simpler than those of the XM, but they still have electronics.
They are very comfy and roomy, and are sensational at speed.
The cost of new parts is extortionate. :shock:

Best wishes ! :lol:
2002 C5 2.0i AL4 230,000 km 76372389
Peter.N.
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Re: C5?

Post by Peter.N. »

Hi Clogzz

Thanks for that reasurance :( the 2.0 ltre 8 valve diesel manual was the one I had in mind. There was a nice looking blue metalic one for sale not far from here, taxed and MOT a few minor faults but 240k miles, went for £426.00, I wish I had gone and looked, I thought if it had lasted that long it ought to go on for a bit.

What actually goes wrong with them to write them off?

Peter
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Re: C5?

Post by myglaren »

I don't think they are any worse than anything else on the market.

If Mr Coastlinetaxis were here to comment I'm sure you would be reassured as he runs a fleet of them and not long ago retired one with 440,000 miles on the clock as it was getting a bit shabby but still running fine.
His taxis do a 17 hour per day duty cycle and he retired his Mondeo fleet and replaced with C5s as they were more reliable, much more economical and the customers like them.

I think the common problems have been pretty well covered on the forum.
Lift pumps failing.
Rear brake corrosion.
MAF failing.
DMF - I had mine replaced along with the clutch at around 120,000 miles and although it was on it's last legs it didn't actually need doing at that point - inaccurate fault diagnosis - buggered injector.
Juddering from the steering, usually the UJ needing lubrication or steering rack insecure.
Leaks on a similar scale to a Xantia.
Hydraulic pump failure - not a really common fault but often an expensive one.
Com2000 going haywire.
Aircon control module packing in (cheap repair)
Slow start syndrome which I am currently enjoying. Just been discussing having the starter rebuilt (one day)

A few other niggles but as said, no worse than you will find with most other makes and models and better than some.
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Re: C5?

Post by myglaren »

Thought I had lost that lot ^ as Firefox updated itself as I hit the 'Post' button.
Happily it was clever enough to remember everything when it restarted:)
Peter.N.
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Re: C5?

Post by Peter.N. »

Thanks for that Steve. About this 'comm2000' is it replaceable, repairable or what?

Peter
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Re: C5?

Post by Deanxm »

Peter i would not worry about a C5, i know its a bit out of the comfort zone compared to what your used to but im sure you will get on with it just as well as your Pug. Remember if you go looking for trouble you will find it, remember what they said about the xm?......................is that true :roll:
As for XM's v C5's all the systems do the same job in the same way but the C5's is a lower maintenance setup that does not have any sticky height correctors and sphere's that last much longer, the trade off is that you end up with a more electronicaly based setup, i say tradoff though but it is actualy (i think) easier in some respects to be able to talk to the car via a lexia and have it tell you whats wrong, im sure you know a good man who visits every now and again who has one of those too :wink: .

D
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x 1204

Re: C5?

Post by Peter.N. »

Hi Dean

I'm not really worried about the mechanical side, in fact I can see some advantages in the C5 set up, its purely the electronics that worry me. I do actually own a Lexia but haven't been able to get it to work yet :oops:

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Re: C5?

Post by Lighty »

I think there is a lot of scare mongery around C5's . They do have all the faults listed above plus a few more, such as rear arm bearings, but not all of those problems will happen to every car.
Personally I would avoid the 2.2, lots more complicated, and as far as I can tell just uses more fuel. Also avoid an Auto, these are generally rubbish imo.
As with all HDI, I would go for the Bosch system rather than Seimens, as the High pressure pump and injectors for Siemens are way too expensive.
Not all C5's have dual mass flywheels, and I have fitted conversions to a couple anyway, and they seem to be ok (wouldnt put a conversion in most other cars tbh).
The particulate system is a total pain in the butt (for owners, not me :mrgreen:) and also tpms or tyre pressure monitors, I would probably remove this, because at £50 per valve from GSF, it is an unnecessary annoyance.
Otherwise a cracking car for the money, I recently got 2.2 hdi estate exclusive with 80000 miles , leather , sat nav etc etc, with a electronic issue for £600.
You wont get a better car for less, it had a split vacuum pipe , ran it for about 2 weeks and it was superb.
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Re: C5?

Post by bikerbadge »

Peter.N. wrote:Hi Clogzz

Thanks for that reasurance :( the 2.0 ltre 8 valve diesel manual was the one I had in mind. There was a nice looking blue metalic one for sale not far from here, taxed and MOT a few minor faults but 240k miles, went for £426.00, I wish I had gone and looked, I thought if it had lasted that long it ought to go on for a bit.

What actually goes wrong with them to write them off?

Peter
mines got 120k miles 2.0hdi tnt £1200 im selling mine for so even the high milers are making okish money
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Re: C5?

Post by myglaren »

Peter.N. wrote:Thanks for that Steve. About this 'comm2000' is it replaceable, repairable or what?

Peter
Someone like BBSReman may be able to repair them but they are generally considered a complete loss and replaceable at around £200.
Peter.N.
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x 1204

Re: C5?

Post by Peter.N. »

Thanks Steve, that's what I wanted to know. Do you know if you can fit a secondhand one?

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Re: C5?

Post by Lighty »

You can fit second hand, and GSF keep some of them.
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Re: C5?

Post by Deanxm »

Peter.N. wrote:Hi Dean

I'm not really worried about the mechanical side, in fact I can see some advantages in the C5 set up, its purely the electronics that worry me. I do actually own a Lexia but haven't been able to get it to work yet :oops:

Peter

Time to dust it off and put it into use now then Peter :lol:

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Re: C5?

Post by cachaciero »

Hi Peter

Don't worry about the electronics, much of the electronics you already have albeit in a different form. From the XM you have a hydroactive controler, this is now incorporated within the pump and the mechanical height correctors on the suspension have been replaced with relatively simpler pots and electrovalves. Anti-skid with which you will already be familiar has grown a bit into traction control and stability control, and if you have an HDI then the engine ECU won't be much different in a C5.The big difference is that the interconnection of the various devices instead of being done with lots of separate interconnecting bits of wire is done with just two wires.
IMHO the electronics themselves are very reliable, I strongly believe that most failures of electronic units on cars are due to people trying to troubleshoot problems without either the proper equipment or proper knowledge of what they are doing and that applies to the trade as much as DIYers.
You have already got the one piece of equipment you really need to identify and troubleshoot a C5, a Lexia all you need to do is to get it to work and learn how to use it,:-) the value of the Lexia is not so much that it will give you error codes it is that it will allow you to read and record in real time a wide variety of data from various sensors and systems.
I came to the C5 by way of XM's, and like you I was concerned about maintenance issues,I came to the conclusion that a Lexia was going to be essential to accurately diagnose problems on these cars so I factored the cost of one into the purchase budget.
I have had a Mk1 2.2 Exclusive SE for three years now, you can't get a C5 with more electronics than that.
In the three years I have had the car I have had a total of 7 electrical faults. Tyre pressure sensors, the batterys go flat after ten years, removed with the help of the Lexia. Alternator, brushes. Hydraulic pump, brushes / commutator corrosion. Secondhand pump purchased replacement unit built using original electronics as the ECU on the secondhand unit didn't support Xenon HIDS. Rear window locking due to failed switch, easily diagnosed with Lexia. Failed speedo, broken torque motor easy fix common problem. Radio, poor RF gain another radio. Auto gearbox hanging on to second gear.
Off all these failures only the radio was a failure of an electronic unit per se which required the unit to be changed, the gearbox problem was due to incorrect software options being set, easily resolved with the Lexia although diagnosis and elimination was a bit time consuming.
I regard the car as extremely reliable, 2.2's have a bad rep as regards reliability, totally undeserved in my opinion, and auto boxes seem to be a subject that cause strong opinions, however autoboxes don't suffer from DMF's falling apart, do suck fuel though :-(. None of the problems I have had are out of the way for a ten year old 100K plus car.
The only failures that I can envisage costing a lot to resolve are a failure of the Engine ECU or the BSI and this simply because they are coded to each other, in either case I suspect that one would have to buy new because of the requirement to have a "Virgin" unit to code.

Finally IMHO the C5 does not handle as well and is not as comfortable as the XM :-)

cachaciero
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