Berlingo engine management light and no rev counter

[Jeffvernon]

Hi everyone I'm new to the forum and after reading some of the topics I'm really hoping someone's got an answer to this problem.

I have had my 2002 berlingo 1.9 diesel van for 3 years now and had no problems with it until now. It has been regularly serviced and has had a new cam belt about 6 months ago. A couple of weeks ago driving down the dual carriageway the rev counter just stopped working, the engine management light came on and the engine started running unevenly with white smoke from the exhaust. So I went for the easy option and replaced the TDC sensor which is situated on the bell housing (DIDN'T FIX IT!!). Took the vehicle to Citroen and they said they had checked the wiring and condemned the ECU. I got the ECU refurbished (STILL DIDN'T FIX IT!!). Have today discovered that the two wires coming from the injector have been rubbing against the engine cowling and have worn away the insulation revealing bare wire. I am now starting to think that the needle lift sensor is at fault (maybe caused by a short circuit) but this is now starting to become very expensive keep replacing parts that may or may not be faulty. Can anyone help pinpoint the problem so I don't spend anymore money than I need to!!

Thanks in advance.
Jeff

[CitroJim]

Hi Jeff and welcome

The Needle Lift Sensor could well be the root cause of it all... It can be crudely tested with an ohmmeter and should have a resistance in the region of 100 ohms..

Much more precise, to discover the real fault, will be a Lexia diagnostic. Depending upon where you live there's members on here who have the Lexia and are happy to offer a diagnostic reading.

This will tell you instantly if the Needle Lift Sensor is working or not and what else may be possibly contributing to it. One Lexia session can save a lot of needless 'plug and pray' parts swapping.

A current list of people offing Lexia sessions is here.

[Jeffvernon]

Thanks Jim for such a quick reply. I've just checked the sensor across the two terminals and it appears that there is no resistance - meter reading 000. The problem I've got about getting a Lexia diagnostic reading from any members is that I live in Cyprus! and the garages over here are about as useful as a chocolate teapot! and its not easy to get parts either - we normally get friends to bring them over when they visit.

Does the needle lift sensor operate the rev counter?

[CitroJim]

The problem I've got about getting a Lexia diagnostic reading from any members is that I live in Cyprus!

Ahh, hence your reference to THE dual carriageway - The Nicosia to Limassol 'Motorway'. I remember them building that one although I understand it now runs a bit further towards Paphos and bypasses the Episkopi SBA. I also remember the old Nicosia road too

I was there nearly 30 years ago now, serving a posting on one of the SBAs and in those days the garages were brilliant in that they could make anything work again by inspired bodgery but these days things are very different. Their old methods of making things work are not applicable to the modern stuff. For a Cypriot yours would be fine. It starts and runs doesn't it? Well, what the worry? Manyana... My goodness could I tell some tales of Cypriot garages - both good and horrific

If the Needle Lift Sensor is either open-circuit or short-circuit like yours then it's duff. Yes, I'd say it was driving the rev counter as in some Bosch installations it does just that.

Sadly if the needle lift Sensor is duff then replacement of the whole injector is the only answer - they can't be repaired and they're a bit dear too.

Running without one will upset the pump timing and make it run in a safe default mode. Not quite limp-home but not far off.

[Jeffvernon]

Its great to talk to someone who understands what its like over here. Thanks so much for your advice and tips. I now feel a little bit more comfortable ordering the injector and sensor although it will probably be a couple of weeks before I can get the bits over here. I'll post the progress report or cry for more help later. Thanks again - its been great.

Jeff

[Jeffvernon]

Hi all.

Am now back to square one. Managed to get a injector/needle lift sensor quickly and replaced it last night but it hasn't made any difference.

Unless anyone has anymore ideas I'm gonna have to try and get hold of a Lexia diagnostic kit. Does anyone know where I can buy one for a reasonable price? I won't need it delivered to Cyprus as I will get it bought over by a friends flying over on the 29th Feb.

[myglaren]

Check out this thread for a possible solution to the Lexia purchase.

[Jeffvernon]

Hi all,

I didn't want this to be an unfinished story. I've just spent nearly two hours at a garage with all sorts of things plugged into my van, with ECU's, sensor's, interfaces and all that complicated clobber being checked out. It turns out that I may have damaged flywheel. WHY DO WE LOOK FOR ALL THE COMPLICATED THINGS TO GO WRONG? The test the technician used to check the TDC sensor was :-
1. Removed TDC sensor
2. Plug sensor back into connector
3. Position TDC sensor in a safe place
4. Start engine
5. Swipe a magnet across the base of the TDC sensor very quickly - make sure someone keeps an eye on the rev counter.
6. If the sensor and wiring is all working then the rev counter will start to work and the engine note will change.
7. This proved that the reference point on the flywheel which the sensor reads is damaged.

So in comes the heavy gear to take the gearbox out and replace the flywheel (when I can get hold of one!)

SO PLEASE BE PATIENT AND WAIT FOR THE NEXT CHAPTER

Jeff

[Jeffvernon]

Hi All

Just spent the morning taking the gearbox out of my berlingo and guess what - the sensor pick up lugs on the flywheel were sheared off - this was all due to a garage thats got monkeys working for them. I had a new clutch fitted 18 months ago and the thrust bearing had gone through the diaphragm - obviously leaving a lot of debris in the bell housing, but the lazy sods had put the gear box back in leaving the bits of debris behind still in the bell housing. So the moral of this story is if you are able to do it then do the job yourself!! At the time I was too busy at work otherwise I would have done it myself. Now I wish I had made time but hey ho.

Hope this might help some of you if you ever have the same problem.

Cheers

[simmyoto]

Hi there Jeff, sory to hijackthis one but after a clutch release bearing implosion i have been left with the same problem as you- the two hall effect crank sensor "drive lugs" / Magnets have both sheared off on my flywheel as well, did you find a source for replacement lugs or did you have to install a complete flywheel?

Many thanks

Rob

[oscar]

Those magnets could/would they be able to be reused if you could refix them? as theres a car spares near me that does this glue you mix with one or other dust depending on what you are fixing that goes of in a minute or less that is like steel when set. and all for £10 a box.
Which if works will save a few bucks

[Burnzy]

Hello I have same problem with my 2002 1.9 straight diesel van. The clutch went on me and this in turn made the engine management light come on and the van started loosing power and smoke coming out the exhaust. The mechanic who fitted the new clutch noticed that I had destroyed the rpm sensor which sits on top of gearbox and thought once newvone is fitted this will resolve problem but it didn't . So with new clutch and new rpm sensor and stil the problem I took it to Citroen who checked all the wiring to and from the sensors in the van and told me everything was ok but wanted to look at fly wheel but the cost was too much so took it to another mechanic who pointed out to me that the two wee pick up sensors on the fly wheel were broke off and that this is why the van wasn't running right so ingot second hand one and got it fitted but stil the problem remains. This mechanic now thinks I need a new brain and will have to get it re programmer but the cost is too much. Does anyone else have any ideas iv spent a right few quid trying to fix this problem. Since the new flywheel was fitted, when driving the van, it starts off with the engine management light being off but and no smoke but once I drive it and get a but of speed up the rpm sensor will start to jump all over the place and engine management light flashing on and off with van loosing power. Please help

[Burnzy]

Hello jeff did u get the problem fixed

[Jeffvernon]

Hi Burnzy

I've just answered your private message. Sorry hadn't looked on here for a few months so didn't know message was still being posted to. Now I've read your post and am up to date with your problem your probably not going to like what your going to hear. Due to the fact that it was the clutch that initially went and caused the problem I do not feel that it is the engine management control unit that is the problem. I strongly recommend that you use a genuine Citroen crankshaft sensor as pattern ones are of variable quality. I don't know if you are aware but the Berlingo Van 2002 was a changeover year. This could mean that your second hand flywheel may be the wrong one for the engine (depending on the engine some flywheels do not have the lugs on them). Does your berlingo have a injector sensor on it? This sensor is on the right hand side of the engine (cylinder 4). If you have an injector sensor then you need the flywheel that has the two lugs on it. You might think I'm talking a load of rubbish but its worth checking out. If you want to talk to us just private message your no as it's sometimes easier to discuss on the phone rather than backwards and forwards with messages!