Buying a C5 (estate).

[Alec B]

A big hello to all. Not been here for a while but now I am hoping to get back into the magic carpet ride I thought I'd ask if I should look out for anything on Mk 2 C5 estate (especially suspension wise). After owning a SII xantia for 8 years the bug just won't go and I'm getting itchy feet with our Picasso (nice car just not my cup of tea). We are looking at a 1.6 or 2.0 hdi 2004 to 2006 VTR, or above. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Alec

[Citroenmad]

Hi Alec, welcome back to the FCF

A good choice with the C5, I rate them highly and have had a fair few now.

The C5II is a well sorted car, better in many ways than the C5I but obviously still very similar. If your looking for the magic carpet ride then I do find C5Is have a slightly softer ride but the C5IIs are a better drive. They do ride well, especially on the motorways where they just waft along in the usual Citroen way.

The 1.6 and 2.0 16v HDis are good engines. Make sure they have both got full service history and ideally every year or 10-12K and not the extended 20K intervals. The 1.6 can be troubled with turbo problems if services have been missed and the oil left in too long. Both cars have dual mass flywheels - as will your Picasso, so check that the clutch operates well, doesn’t judder under a quick get away and doesn’t slip at peak torque (typically 2000rpm at higher speeds). Cambelt intervals are every 150K on both engines, seems a bit long for me and ive known of them going sooner, so budget that in if its approaching 100K.

Other things to be aware of, though hard to check for, are:
- sticking front callipers, make sure the handbrake isnt slack at its off position as that often means a stuck calliper.
- wedged rear callipers, corrosion grows between the calliper and suspension arm and wedges the calliper out causing the pads to wear abnormally and quickly. On some alloy wheel designs the calliper can touch the inside of the wheel in extreme situations.
- rear radius arm bearings, often more common on estates due to the extra weight they often carry. Check for excess knocking from the rear when going over bumps. Often there can be a loud crack when going over larger undulations/speed bumps.
- electrics, check all functions of the indicator and wiper stalks. Check all windows operate and central door locking. Nothing usually major but a haggling tool if there is an issue. Again all faults your Pic can suffer.
- Spheres, depending on mileage the car could be due a set. Ive seen C5s with 100K plus on original spheres and riding well and others with 50K and riding firm. So give the car a good push on each corner and check that its nice and soft - not springy or bouncy.

All worse case scenarios but worth keeping in mind for viewing some C5s.

Also, the estate should have a opening rear hatch window, however most of these dont work or will break at some point. Its often the wiring and can be fixed fairly easily, check that it works on ones you view and haggle if not. Also check that the button in the boot to raise and lower the back of the car works.

Out of the two id be tempted by the 2.0HDi 138bhp, its the one I went for and has a good amount of torque and performance to keep things swift but civilised. Its a great cruiser as you never have to change down for a little extra go at motorways speed. Its also a 6 speed box with a tall top gear so 70 is about 2000rpm, making it very quiet and economical. There wont be a great deal of difference in MPG between the 1.6 and 2.0 as the 1.6 will need to work harder and does more revs. I think the 1.6 might be slightly lower road tax and insurance though.

VTR is a good spec to go for, it has everything you really need and more. Cruise control, CD player, audio controls on the column, dual zone climate control, 4 electric windows, electric mirrors, trip computer, alloys etc etc. Exclusive is sometimes nice to have, though I personally hate the seat fabric in exclusives, especially the light grey versions on dark coloured cars. If you find one with optional leather then its worth going for. Also satnav is another option. Ive seen quite a few earlier C5II VTRs (maybe press release cars or dealer demos) with optional directional Xenons and the parking pack (parking sensors front and rear and electric folding mirrors) - both standard on the Exclusive. The Exclusive also boasts a CD changer and laminated side windows.

If you are going for a 1.6HDi then you might as well try and source a VTX+ - it was a special edition in around 2006 and has a satnav and CD changer on top of the VTR spec. Interior and wheels are all VTR. This was only available in 1.6HDi or 2.2HDi 173bhp.

Something else to think about if your set on a 1.6 is the Design spec, its based on the LX so has a basic interior but it does have single zone climate control and alloy wheels, with black bumper rub strips. I mention this as for some odd reason this 1.6HDi 110 does not have a FAP filter when fitted to the design spec, or so the Citroen blurb says. but that spec only, it does on LX, VTR and VTX+.

Thats about all I can think of for now

We have three C5s at the moment and have had two others. We have a 2005 VTR 2.0 16v HDi 138 Estate and I have the saloon version, there are great cars.

[Alec B]

Wow thanks for all that info. Looking at a 1.6 tomorrow so will keep you updated. Not in a massive hurry so if it isn't what we want we'll walk away.

[cachaciero]

Bit difficult to cap the previous advice but check the rear door gas struts, they do go soft and it's a headlining out job to replace. Personally I reckon the tastiest one to go for is the 2.2 173bhp, fuel consumption not much worse that the 2.0 same tax and a lot more poke but there arn't many of these around as they were only produced 2007- 2008. Auto's do increase the fuel consumption quite markedly and increase the tax by one bracket. Having owned an estate with rear parking sensors I don't really understand how I lived without them, don't think they were standard fit on VTX but have seen a few with the option. Oh! and seat belts return spring was very soft on Mk1's don't know about Mk11's worth checking that they retract smartly.
In clutch / flywheel replacement territory at circa 70K and Eolys top up FAP clean at 100K

cachaciero

cachaciero

[Citroenmad]

Bit difficult to cap the previous advice but check the rear door gas struts, they do go soft and it's a headlining out job to replace. Personally I reckon the tastiest one to go for is the 2.2 173bhp, fuel consumption not much worse that the 2.0 same tax and a lot more poke but there arn't many of these around as they were only produced 2007- 2008. Auto's do increase the fuel consumption quite markedly and increase the tax by one bracket. Having owned an estate with rear parking sensors I don't really understand how I lived without them, don't think they were standard fit on VTX but have seen a few with the option. Oh! and seat belts return spring was very soft on Mk1's don't know about Mk11's worth checking that they retract smartly.
In clutch / flywheel replacement territory at circa 70K and Eolys top up FAP clean at 100K

cachaciero

Ive had a bit of a drive in a 2.2 173 and they are lively, though a 2.0 138 can be 'mapped to very close bhp ...

No, rear parking sensors were only standard on the Exclusive, however all C5IIs have holes in the lower bumper (filled with blanks) to accept a parking sensor kit. You could install an aftermarket one quite cheaply, though I understand the genuine C5 option kit needs more involved work. We had a C5 estate with aftermarket rear parking sensors, they worked well and were a bonus. Our current one doesnt have then, none of our C5s do, and its fine as its a very flat backed car the estate. I have been tempted to get them fitted to the two C5IIs but have resisted so far.

Ive not had the problem of the slow belt return on a C5II but have on the Is, maybe thats just because the cars are younger or maybe somehting had been changed.

[cachaciero]

Wonder what a 2.2 173 could be chipped to.
Re parking sensors my mk1 exclusive has rear parking sensors the genuine Citroen version but the installation isn't just involved it was an after thought and a mess looked like it had been tacked in by a dealer who didn't have a competent electrician. As regards slow belts, seems to be a common failing on Mk1's.

cachaciero

[dnsey]

Perhaps surprisingly, the slow seatbelt syndrome (not just on C5s) is often due to dirty belts.
They may appear clean, but a scrub and dry of both the belt and its guides will usually restore normal return action.

[Citroenmad]

I have heard a good clean of the seatbelt will cure the problem, im yet to give it a go with our C5I, though I will do.

If I remember correctly the parking sensors on the C5II are linked to the ECU and I dont think the standard ECU supports then, I think they need another little ECU. On the C5II they are front and rear (when fitted, to Exclusives only unless an option has been ticked) and the central display shows up the outline of the car and visually warn when things get close. There is the audio warning too of course.

[SaabC5]

Wonder what a 2.2 173 could be chipped to.

cachaciero

221bhp according to this. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170747047957

[Citroenmad]

Wonder what a 2.2 173 could be chipped to.

cachaciero

221bhp according to this. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170747047957

That would be nice

[cachaciero]

Oh dear! not sure an autobox would like that, guess I may have to re-learn how to use that waggly stick thing between the front seats if I ever get a 2.2 173

cachaciero

[Citroenmad]

Oh dear! not sure an autobox would like that ...

cachaciero

Im not sure a DMF would like that either

[Quackers]

Being the owner of a 2.2 HDI 173 BHP i can tell you its a very nice engine, plenty of power It is Auto and it does gobble fuel. Done 6000 miles now and according to the computer i have averaged 28mpg infact i look away from the computer when flooring the car now as its not nice seeing 9mpg under heavy acceloration. Got a rare combination of 2.2 173BHP, Exclusive with NaviPack and love it! So many toys....... but defo the best Mark II C5.

[Citroenmad]

Being the owner of a 2.2 HDI 173 BHP i can tell you its a very nice engine, plenty of power It is Auto and it does gobble fuel. Done 6000 miles now and according to the computer i have averaged 28mpg infact i look away from the computer when flooring the car now as its not nice seeing 9mpg under heavy acceloration. Got a rare combination of 2.2 173BHP, Exclusive with NaviPack and love it! So many toys....... but defo the best Mark II C5.

A very unusual C5 to find in Exclusive 2.2 173 Auto! Never even seen one for sale. Does it have the optional leather interior too?

Pretty awful MPG though, I know someone with a manual one and that does close to 50 on average I think.

[cachaciero]

Being the owner of a 2.2 HDI 173 BHP i can tell you its a very nice engine, plenty of power It is Auto and it does gobble fuel. Done 6000 miles now and according to the computer i have averaged 28mpg infact i look away from the computer when flooring the car now as its not nice seeing 9mpg under heavy acceloration. Got a rare combination of 2.2 173BHP, Exclusive with NaviPack and love it! So many toys....... but defo the best Mark II C5.

O.K so it sucks fuel on heavy acceleration, so does it's predecessor, and my average over time always seems to be in the region of 22 but what does it give you at 70 on the motorway.

cachaciero