Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

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Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by ito »

Hi folks, could somebody tell me what the differences are between the Lucas DWLP11 and the DWLP12 pumps besides the obvious advance system? I have tried fitting the earlier mechanical advance pump (DWLP11) to and engine which runs just fine (on tickover) on the later pump, no engine issues(i.e timing, compression, glow plugs or feed, starter etc), no fuel delivery problems (i.e. coded stop solenoid) but cannot get the thing to start, not a hint, and the pump delivers a fine spray pattern from the injectors exactly as I would expect. How rare is it for an injection pump to lose its internal timing but still pump ok? The earlier pumps were used on the DW8 engine from 1998 up to 2001, later pumps from early 2001 on. The aluminium cradle that these two pumps bolt into look identical in every respect, also the pumps, except for the advance system, also look identical. Thanks! This is an engine replacement issue, original engine (older) broken cam, later engine out of a late 01 reg van, my van has no ECU or BSI hence the need to use the earlier pump.
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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by wheeler »

Does the engine fire on a sniff of easy start ??
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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by spider »

As far as I am aware (I don't have access to my notes / data at the moment) the only difference is the electronic advance really and a couple of external (not relevant) items such as the post heat control microswitches and egr microswitch, but it would run without these anyway.

Its mainly the electronic vs mechanical advance, I am not aware of any other major differences.

IIRC, if you power up the later electronic pump without the advance being connected / faulty it will lock to full advance which (apart from the noise!) might be very difficult to start.

DW8's are adjustable on the sprockets though, it is possible to get them out. There is a procedure to undo the three bolts and move the sprockets fully one way, fit the belt etc and move check they are not fully the other way etc.

The cradles are the same part number (I remember that as I looked into this for something else a couple of weeks back)

As I say I don't have any notes to hand just going from memory although it has been a long time since I saw one in the metal, so to speak now.
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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by Peter.N. »

Many years ago I fitted a Bosch pump to a BX in place of the Lucas one and had the same problem and it was because the injection order was different so it was injecting fuel into the wrong cylinders at the wrong time, when I changed the injector pipes for the Bosch type it worked fine. Both of yours being Lucas I wouldn't have thought they would be different but you never know. If fuel is being injected in but its not firing it can only be that the timing isn't right - all other things being equal.

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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by ito »

Hi Peter, you are spot on, although the firing order remains the same (1342), Peugeot/Citroen in their infinate wisdom have decided to alter the sequence by 90 degrees, I suspect to deter the likes of myself of installing a non electronic pump in an electronically controlled engine. Once the correct order was established, the engine fired up on the button, so basically anyone reading this, the pipework is matched to the pump, DWLP11 pipes will not run a DWLP12 pump and vicy verky. Solution found, thankyou French Car Forum, and Peter for bothering to apply your time and grey cells to my problem.
Last edited by ito on 17 Jan 2012, 09:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by CitroJim »

Excellent result :-D

And good knowledge too... I'm amazed the firing order between two variants of Lucas pumps changed though... Would never have thought of that so well done Peter!
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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by Peter.N. »

I didn't think it would vary between pumps of the same make but I thought it would be worth a shot. What was it Sherlock Holmes said 'when you have eliminated the impossible ......'.

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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by ito »

just a bit of detail for others if encountering the same!
Last edited by GiveMeABreak on 10 Dec 2021, 13:43, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Invalid Filenames (User Error)
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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by spider »

Interesting :) Thank you for sharing.

The general consensus then is if using (or wanting to use) the earlier pump with the later engines simply ensure you have the earlier pipework too.
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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by paddybloomer »

i ran in to this problem a few years ago and never solved it so i had to refit the dwlp 12 pump. as my advance solenoid and asociated wireing is giving probems again i want to try again whith this new knoledge to fit the dwlp11 i wonder can i find the correct pipes. i cant see the image atached above, how can i get it?
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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The post was nearly 10 years ago and the files were invalid, hence why they never appeared. I've deleted them now as there is nothing to show.
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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by paddybloomer »

DW8B injejtor pipes for dwlp12 part no. 1570 A4
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Last edited by paddybloomer on 24 Dec 2021, 18:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by paddybloomer »

dw8 injector pipes for DWLP11 pump part no. DW8 1570 81
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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by Peter.N. »

The Bosch and CAV pumps had different pipe arrangements similar to that on the XUD engine.

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Re: Berlingo diesel DW8 engine (1868cc) fuel pump

Post by paddybloomer »

i was aware of the different pipes for the Bosch pump but would never have suspected the there would be 2 different pipes for the Lucas. i have my van running now and am no longer plagued by intermittent faults affecting the electronic advance system, hooray. the dwlp11 pump has a solenoid on the backside i don't know what it does buy the engine is running fine with it disconnected. i wonder what else i can disconnect, the ecu cant be up to much now.
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