C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

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charentejohn
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C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by charentejohn »

I am looking for a new car for my wife (Merc A-class auto box went bang) and so am a little cautious on what car/auto box to buy. I am in France and auto box repair is 2x UK prices so i would like a few years before problems are expected.
I did see this thread http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... sensodrive" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which didn't seem so bad but....

Reading around there seem to be some concerns on the Sensodrive boxes (always the case with anything) so do people have direct experiece of these. We are talking a 2002 ish 1.4HDI sensodrive as these are what are available here. There are some for sale here but they are never local so no chance to drive a few ans see what they are like, currently nearst one is 2hrs+ from me. An idea of cars are here http://www.leboncoin.fr/voitures/offres ... &gb=2&q=c3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Concerns are general reliablilty of the boxes and ease of repair. Are there any tricky electronics in them specific to the car ?
This is what killed the merc, needs a main dealer to fit and code the box £5k ish :evil: so never want this to happen again.
I would go for a golf with an older 'anyone can fix it' type box but the C3 would be an ideal car here.

I have also heard the changes can be harsh but better if you anticipate the change. How true is this as other similar (Audi/VW) cars don't seem to have this criticism, but then again they are larger ?

We would be looking at a diesel car with 100k miles (maybe a bit more) on the clock, any comments appreciated.
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by Citroenmad »

Im not sure on reliability, I think a few have had programming issues (wanting to set off in 3rd and stalling etc) and im almost certain the cars which would normally have a dual mass flywheel as a manual also have one as a sensodrive.

We had a Sensodrive Peugeot 1007 1.6, it was ok at first, seemed like a bit of a gimmik and suited the strange car. However after a while it drove me up the wall, so much so the car was not used. Though I much prefer manual cars.

I found the sensodrive jerky, gearchanges cause a pause during acceleration, even slight acceleration. When crusing you can still detect the large pause in the change. When you need to park the box makes it a bit difficult as there is no creep as in normal autos. The box does not let the clutch slip, so it is simple engaged or disengaged. This either means the car shoots off quite quickly when your trying to judge up to something, as the clutch somes in at fill tilt, or you cant get it to move and it rolls as your afraid to press the pedal incase it goes at high speed into the thing your parking near. You do get used to that and you can use both feet to aid parking. However, you can not press the brake and accelerator at the same time to slow the car to a slow creep as the clutch will drop out of drive. It made what should have been a nippy car a little slow, given the increased pause length.

I did like the manual mode, well the ability to change gear when you want and to whatever gear you would like. Something I dislike about true autos. The sensodrive (and EGS, same thing) is never going to be as smooth as a real auto or as involved as a manual but its a middle way. Gives you some control over gears and doesnt hamper economy like automatics but it acts as an automatic. When used in manual mode you can get better gearchanges, as you can ease off the gas when changing gear.

If you have ever driven a smart car, its better than the gearboxes in those, you dont get the big and dangerous pause between hitting the accelerator and getting drive, and the gears are ever so slightly quicker to change. The sensodrive and EGS boxes are an aquired taste. Essentially a manual gearbox and clutch with an automated change, so doesnt have the complexity of an autobox in itself but the automation part might prove to be troube, im not sure.

If its a 1.4HDi your going for then the 8vs are the better ones, 16v are less common but appear more often with problems.
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by charentejohn »

Thanks for the info, I had a feeling that was the case.
I had read reports of harsh changes, but hadn't considered the 'on or off' parking issues.
Problem was all reviews I found were from people who had problems or didn't like the car, people who like stuff rarely write about it much. I usually a allow a 4 to 1 ratio at least, so 1 good = 4 bad.
Just trying to get opinions from people who have driven them with sensodrive and can give a review not prompted by a failure. Autotrader has a lot of good reviews but none were for the sensodrive in particular. Other places the reviews are usually after a failure of some kind, fair enough, but not usually balanced by someone else saying how well it suits them.

I will try and find one locally, in a garage maybe, that we can try but very few autos here (and has to be an auto of some sort).
Still worth trying a drive but now we know what to test, tight spaces and hill starts. Shame they didn't offer a 'standard' auto box option.
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by myglaren »

Not sure how pertinent this may be but my cousin, who always bought a new Honda every year and always had automatics, bought a new Civic a few years ago but couldn't get an automatic, on a senslessdrive.
It was lethal and never worked properly in the six months she had it, despite major barneys with the dealer and the car being with then for four out of the six months.
Dumped it for a 307 and will never entertain a Honda ever again.
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by Citroenmad »

Our Peugeot 1007 didn't go wrong when we had it, though we didn't have it for very long. The gearbox worked as it should, I just didn't get along with it too well.

I know someone with a C3 1.6 16v petrol Sensodrive and they really like the car and its been no problems at all.
I also know someone who used to have a C4 Pic EGS (same thing) who sold it after a few months as they had trouble parking it due to the on/off clutch.

You will soon know when you drive one if you like it or not.

Your right, a review is often only posted if the owner is not happy, few happy owners leave reviews. You know its a good car is most of the comments are good :lol:
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by charentejohn »

These seem the latest type of auto boxes, Audi Multitronic, also VW passat (our neighbour has one) which seems ok.
Whatever happened to the good old 4 speed anyone with a spanner can fix it boxes. My old Jag 4.2 failed badly and cost £500 to fix, unfortunately you need to be a little selective nowadays, well I do anyway.
I am trying to avoid complex boxes, just 4/5 speed normal boxes (like my good old Transit auto) will do nicely thanks.
I think I am just able to buy such cars at the moment (about 10 yrs old) such as A3 / Golf / 206? So long as I can buy an exchange box (probably shipped from the UK) and have it fitted by a local garage then no problem. I am thinking the C3 is probably not such a good idea and will look for something with a 'normal' auto box.

Another question is are the Xsara boxes ok ? Thery are very very few and far between here but there is one (3.5hr drive) which is a possibility.
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by Citroenmad »

We spent £2500 getting a autobox on our VW rebuilt after it failed, so I can see why you want to find something reliable!

Find something which is common in automatics, that way a replacement box will be cheap and easy to get hold of.

206 automatic ight be a good option, cheap to buy and there are lots of them, some must be autos.
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by Northern_Mike »

Honda Jazz CVT-7 . My dad has one, it's brilliant. His is a 2005 model, 1.4, CVT. Nice to drive in auto mode, and it has a fake manual mode, where you hit a switch and it goes into flappy-paddle F1 style mode with 7 stepped changes in the CVT box. It's economical enough for a small auto, though I did manage to get it down to 24mpg on a run over the mountains around Athens in flappy paddle, tyre squealing, understeery mode :-)
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by charentejohn »

Just returning to this as a possibility as a nice one about 2 hrs from here (for France that is just around the corner) so may be worth a look.

One problem they seem to have is 'losing' the gearbox. I found a few reviews where someone was doing 70mph then suddenly doing 20mph. Also where they started the car and no gearbox info appeared. Also stories of locking in gear and can't be moved.

Is there a simple solution to these problems, the same reason I think ? Gear sensors or programming ?
As ever if they are easily diagnosed and fixed then no problem. I am considering buying a Lexia so can do some of this myself, just to not be dependant on a garage to do something I know nothing about. If I play with it I will understand it and then it won't be scary.

Too many stories about of garages not being able to fix a problem like the above.
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by Lighty »

We have a C3 or C2 semi auto in here everyweek broken, they are poor and cost lots to fix, I wouldnt want one if it were free .
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by charentejohn »

One thing is for sure is that the C3 sensodrive is a love / hate system. Most reviews, like autotrader, have some who say brilliant and some who say useless.
Very few people think they are ok and not too bad.

I am always surprised that they sell any with all the problems, then again I have a Megane and an A-class with auto box and known problems and they made them the same for years despite people complaining.
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by wheeler »

charentejohn wrote: Shame they didn't offer a 'standard' auto box option.
The C3 is available with a normal AL4 autobox aswell.

If you are going from a regular auto to a sensodrive then i would suggest a very long test drive with lots of manouvres etc
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by charentejohn »

Funny you should mention that as I just found two here with a normal auto box, and at reasonable prices for France.
1.4 petrol with, ok I know, the dreaded AL4 auto box no doubt for £2500. But seems rather that than the sensodrive. If we do go sensodrive I will take the advice and try to make it do any and all manouvres.

I know the 1.4 isn't a road burner, autotrader spec says 0-60 in 16 secs and 101mph top speed but that would be fine for a runabout here. Normally just 60mph on the country roads and otherwise going to the shops, we have the Xantia for the long runs.
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by Citroenmad »

A lot of the problems with the sensodrives seem to be electrical, or so I've read. Updates were required from the dealer at various points. If you can live with the slow gearchanges and lack of 'creep' then it might just do the job. There are so many sensodrive cars around, so that is possibly why there are more going wrong, as there are more of them ... perhaps. The sensodrive is available in C2 and C3, and then the Peugeots - all of which quite big sellers with that box but now are the cheaper models on the used market. The C4 and such also have an EGS box, which drives pretty much the same and is the same idea, a manual gearbox and clutch but with an automated change.

I didn't mind our sensodrive 1007 too much around town, as driving slowly the box kind of made sense. But when pressing on the long pause in the gearchange reduced performance from the otherwise gutsy engine. Economy was not bad though, around 40mpg easily. That was a 1.6 petrol 1007, which are very heavy - a tank weighs less!

Try one, you might hate it and then thats your question answered, but if you don't, it could be a good car.

I know someone with a 1.6 Exclusive C3 sensodrive, they have to have an automatic, but they love the car and the gearbox. They say it gives them chance to change gear manually which a lot of other autos don't - I personally dislike autos for this reason, so for me it was an improvement on a basic auto, but the lack of creep takes a bit of getting used to, but can be made managable.

Our 1007 used to have to park about an inch from a wall (the other cars wouldn't fit in otherwise) and round a very tight 90 degree corner. Not a problem in most cars but that box took a bit of getting used to. However I didn't have any mishaps and the bumpers survived! You can't trick it either, if you try and use the brake and the accelerator it disengages the clutch, same thing happens if you try to keep it still on a hill witht he clutch (not that you should, but I wanted to see if it would), it would hold for a second or two then the clutch would cut out.

So really, if you can get away with the pause between gearchanges (much better in manual mode as you can ease off when changing which speeds up and smoothes the change) and the lack of creep at slow speeds, you might like it.
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Re: C3 automatic sensodrive pros and cons

Post by charentejohn »

Thanks for the reasoned reply, most are just don't do it. Fair enought as I have a feeling if they go wrong they can be a pain so I imagine feelings run high.

We would be looking at a car with 100k+ on the clock and I did think that any car that made it that far must be generally ok ?
I will try one, once I find one close enough, and see how it goes. Still inclined to a standard auto as my wife is used to them but should be ok with a sensodrive.
I know what you mean about anticipating the change on an auto box, if you know it is going to be a hard change you can back off just before and it smooths it out.

Most of the driving would be open road with little or no tight parking to be done, now tending back to giving them a chance rather than dismissing them. To be fair the alternative is the AL4 auto box, as we will be going french if possible, so all have problems.

I am going to buy a Lexia at some point so I hope that would help resolve any problems to make the car a going concern. I was an electrician but car electrics and electronics are a whole other country. :)
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