Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
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Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
Guys - need a bit of advice here.
My 90k 99T plate TD Xantia has a stiff clutch pedal. I am paranoid about the plastic clip breaking. I checked it the other day and I notice its a white clip and judging by the scratches all around the area - its been replaced. In addition the gearbox has no synchro on 3rd so I currently double declutch in & out of 3rd. I assume that the reason that the synchro is knackered is that someone was trying to drive it back from its clip problems and damaged the box!
My question is - firstly how likely is my clip to snap with the stiffer pedal? Secondly if I get the clutch replaced - would it add much more to the cost of the job to get the box changed for a 2nd hand one at the same time? Am I right to be looking at 7 hours labour?
Problem is :
A are there many decent 2nd hand Xantia TD boxes?
B How can I know they are not harbouring faults if its already off the donor vehicle?
C If I ask the garage to source & fit a 2nd hand box, do they take responsibility for labour if the box turns out to be dud?
D Is it a "do-able" job at home, bearing in mind I would be working in the open.
E or do I just get the clutch done and live with the synchro, but at least the clutch is lighter and the clip less likely to go!!
Sorry - just not sure of best course of action. I love the car but the fear of a pinging clutch clip is spoiling it for me.
Cheers
Alan
My 90k 99T plate TD Xantia has a stiff clutch pedal. I am paranoid about the plastic clip breaking. I checked it the other day and I notice its a white clip and judging by the scratches all around the area - its been replaced. In addition the gearbox has no synchro on 3rd so I currently double declutch in & out of 3rd. I assume that the reason that the synchro is knackered is that someone was trying to drive it back from its clip problems and damaged the box!
My question is - firstly how likely is my clip to snap with the stiffer pedal? Secondly if I get the clutch replaced - would it add much more to the cost of the job to get the box changed for a 2nd hand one at the same time? Am I right to be looking at 7 hours labour?
Problem is :
A are there many decent 2nd hand Xantia TD boxes?
B How can I know they are not harbouring faults if its already off the donor vehicle?
C If I ask the garage to source & fit a 2nd hand box, do they take responsibility for labour if the box turns out to be dud?
D Is it a "do-able" job at home, bearing in mind I would be working in the open.
E or do I just get the clutch done and live with the synchro, but at least the clutch is lighter and the clip less likely to go!!
Sorry - just not sure of best course of action. I love the car but the fear of a pinging clutch clip is spoiling it for me.
Cheers
Alan
Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
A - There are decent TD gear boxes about your best option would be to get one from a Pug/Criterion breakers as many of the cars share the same parts.ecohouse1 wrote:Guys - need a bit of advice here.
My 90k 99T plate TD Xantia has a stiff clutch pedal. I am paranoid about the plastic clip breaking. I checked it the other day and I notice its a white clip and judging by the scratches all around the area - its been replaced. In addition the gearbox has no synchro on 3rd so I currently double declutch in & out of 3rd. I assume that the reason that the synchro is knackered is that someone was trying to drive it back from its clip problems and damaged the box!
My question is - firstly how likely is my clip to snap with the stiffer pedal? Secondly if I get the clutch replaced - would it add much more to the cost of the job to get the box changed for a 2nd hand one at the same time? Am I right to be looking at 7 hours labour?
Problem is :
A are there many decent 2nd hand Xantia TD boxes?
B How can I know they are not harbouring faults if its already off the donor vehicle?
C If I ask the garage to source & fit a 2nd hand box, do they take responsibility for labour if the box turns out to be dud?
D Is it a "do-able" job at home, bearing in mind I would be working in the open.
E or do I just get the clutch done and live with the synchro, but at least the clutch is lighter and the clip less likely to go!!
Sorry - just not sure of best course of action. I love the car but the fear of a pinging clutch clip is spoiling it for me.
Cheers
Alan
B - you can be sure with if there are harboring faults. But most breakers test the item before they take them off the vehicles and normally offer a 28 day warranty on parts.
C - If the garage gets the box it's there responsibility to sort it out if it's dud, as they sourced it.
D - it is a doable job at home, but it would help if there was 2 of you to do it. I managed to do my box with my friend who's a mechanic. But it is possible if you take your time and aslong as the weather is fine.
E - I would get a replacement box and get the clutch done, as I'd you just get the clutch and the synchro goes then you've got all that hassle of taking the box of etc to fix it. So it makes more sense to do it all at once.
As for labour I would say 7 hours is abit long, only took 5 to do mine. But i suppose it does depend how fast you work. Also for a 2nd box you'd be looking at roughly £100 for a TD gearbox.
If you go for a recon it'll be £350 + VAT, so it's not cheap & then there's fitting on top. Which should be no more than £200, if it's more than that for labour your being ripped off.
Hope this helps
Mark
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Re: Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
I'm not completely sure of this but I think you can replace the synchros in that box without taking it out, no use of course if you need a clutch but if your heavy clutch turns out to be just a wrecked cable.
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Re: Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
Thanks for the advice so far.
I did wonder if the stifness might be a sticky cable? It does seem slightly worse first "press" of the pedal in a morning then slightly lighten up. There is a slight "boing" sound from the area of the bell houseing when the pedal is 2/3rd down the travel, just at feels as if the plates are separating.
Any way of testing the cable without disconnecting it both ends and pulling it back & forth? I remember doing a BXTZD clutch cable that had snapped at the clutch end and getting the new cable through the bulkhead etc was enough to make a grown man cry!!
I did wonder if the stifness might be a sticky cable? It does seem slightly worse first "press" of the pedal in a morning then slightly lighten up. There is a slight "boing" sound from the area of the bell houseing when the pedal is 2/3rd down the travel, just at feels as if the plates are separating.
Any way of testing the cable without disconnecting it both ends and pulling it back & forth? I remember doing a BXTZD clutch cable that had snapped at the clutch end and getting the new cable through the bulkhead etc was enough to make a grown man cry!!
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Re: Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
Only the fifth synchro. You'd have to be a magician or Harry Potter to do the others in-situGibbo2286 wrote:I'm not completely sure of this but I think you can replace the synchros in that box without taking it out, no use of course if you need a clutch but if your heavy clutch turns out to be just a wrecked cable.
Jim
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Re: Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
Finding a good TD gearbox can bechallenging as worn synchros is a very common fault. My advice would be to try to siurce one from an accident damaged car if at all possible as the chances are that if the car is generally tidy the 'box will be OK.
You can use the 'box from the 90 HDi on a TD. They're a tad taller but have proved very usable. Xac has one on Cassy...
Chances are a 90 HDi, being a late car will yield a good one.
Use a good LUK or Valeo OEM clutch kit. Cheap pattern clutches on a TD are a total and utter false economy...
You can use the 'box from the 90 HDi on a TD. They're a tad taller but have proved very usable. Xac has one on Cassy...
Chances are a 90 HDi, being a late car will yield a good one.
Use a good LUK or Valeo OEM clutch kit. Cheap pattern clutches on a TD are a total and utter false economy...
Jim
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Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
Valeo clutch definately a good choice! http://www.aepdirect.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If you go for the HDI box make sure you get a HDI clutch and you need to keep the clutch fork from your old box.
If you go for the HDI box make sure you get a HDI clutch and you need to keep the clutch fork from your old box.
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Re: Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
Try lubricating the clutch shaft where it goes into the bell housing, I had one on an XM that had nearly siezed up. As Jim says you can only attend to 5th gear with the box in situ as its ouside the main case behind the end cover.
Peter
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Re: Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =7&t=38179
Comes with a free engine and nearly new clutch...might be a deal with MPV who is looking for an engine possibly!
Comes with a free engine and nearly new clutch...might be a deal with MPV who is looking for an engine possibly!
Richard W
Re: Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
You could of course, just replace the cable (& the clip at the same time). This wouldn't resolve the lack of synchro, but you'd have peace of mind that the clip was fine, and give you a bit of time to look around for another gearbox.
My experience is that the clutch pedal goes heavier with time, as the cable wears internally. I've been unluckily enough to have the pedal get heavy enough for me to worry about it, and for the clip to then fail before I'd replaced the cable
My experience is that the clutch pedal goes heavier with time, as the cable wears internally. I've been unluckily enough to have the pedal get heavy enough for me to worry about it, and for the clip to then fail before I'd replaced the cable
Martin
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Re: Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
all good posts above..
the clutch change on a xant is possible in 3 hours if you have done it a few times
agreee Mark's E point and Jims accident damaged box.. for what it's worth, my Xant is 170k and third is still ok just, guess it depends on the history, but with a low mileage car it's a risk I would take..
I changed the cable on mine and for me it made no difference to the clutch weight.. I am fairly convinced that a heavy clutch is an old clutch, unless you can 'feel' things from the cable - but .. if in doubt I would replace clutch and cable now..
and release arm plastic bushes..
when I did mine, I put a valeo in, replaced the bushes, and I always felt the clutch was still slightly heavy, and finally replaced the cable.. then the clutch was heavier still
I drove dads 306 last week and I cant imagine how his clip remains in place, its twice as heavy as mine..
the clutch change on a xant is possible in 3 hours if you have done it a few times
agreee Mark's E point and Jims accident damaged box.. for what it's worth, my Xant is 170k and third is still ok just, guess it depends on the history, but with a low mileage car it's a risk I would take..
I changed the cable on mine and for me it made no difference to the clutch weight.. I am fairly convinced that a heavy clutch is an old clutch, unless you can 'feel' things from the cable - but .. if in doubt I would replace clutch and cable now..
and release arm plastic bushes..
when I did mine, I put a valeo in, replaced the bushes, and I always felt the clutch was still slightly heavy, and finally replaced the cable.. then the clutch was heavier still
I drove dads 306 last week and I cant imagine how his clip remains in place, its twice as heavy as mine..
Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
When I first got my 306 the clutch was that heavy that it messed my foot up lol
Once I changed the clutch it was fine and been perfect ever since.
Once I changed the clutch it was fine and been perfect ever since.
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Re: Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
NO not at all... if you get a HDi (90) box, its NO different to the TD box on the outside!! In fact it IS a TD box.. That is a HDI 90... not a 110.MarkTD wrote:Valeo clutch definately a good choice! http://www.aepdirect.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If you go for the HDI box make sure you get a HDI clutch and you need to keep the clutch fork from your old box.
I know the HDi 90 uses a push clutch, but as the box is a XUD TD box the bracket for the Pull Clutch arrangement will bolt on making it work with the TD pull clutch!
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Re: Xantia TD Gearbox/Clutch Dilema!!
If you go for the HDI box make sure you get a HDI clutch and you need to keep the clutch fork from your old box.
Exactly my findings when we put an HDi 90 'box on Xac's Cassy.. Thanks for confirming my thoughts and memories of the job Paulcitroenxm wrote:NO not at all... if you get a HDi (90) box, its NO different to the TD box on the outside!! In fact it IS a TD box.. That is a HDI 90... not a 110.
I know the HDi 90 uses a push clutch, but as the box is a XUD TD box the bracket for the Pull Clutch arrangement will bolt on making it work with the TD pull clutch!
In fact on Cassy it was only a few weeks ago we replaced the clutch. I know it was a standard TD clutch we fitted.
The ML5 'box on the 110 HDi is totally different and cannot be used.[/quote]
Jim
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