406 HDI :: Engine might need to be replaced :: Advice!

[virtualeyes]

Hey all.

Bit of a nightmare scenario, while en route to Portugal from France, recently purchased Peugeot 406 HDI began overheating. I pulled over at a service station, bought a container of anti-freeze/coolant, poured it in, waited for the engine to cool down and then hit the road again.

All was well, engine running around 70 degrees for about 100KM, but then the heat gradually increased again, now hovering around 90, and then minutes later, pinned red line again. Coasted into another service station, bought more coolant and repeated. This time the engine did not cool down below 90 and I knew something was not good, time for a garage. So I pulled into some garage in Palencia Spain and a mechanic had a look. Said the radiator was cold, could be engine thermostat, or something else. So, he filled the radiator with water and then had me start the engine. Water immediately spurted out of the radiator container, and he had me shut down the engine.

He walked away waiving his arms saying the engine is dead, good luck. Well, I am not a mechanic by any means, but I just bought the car 3 weeks ago with only 75,000 miles (132,000KM) on the engine, wtf!

To make matters worse, AXA, the vehicle insurer refuses to tow the car back to France as the value of the car (3,200 Euros) is less than the cost to tow back to France (360 euros) + estimated repair cost (3,000 euros). Jesus, you have to be kidding me, I'm the one who has to pay for the repair and AXA won't tow it because the cost of the repair and towing are greater than the estimated value of the car? That is a major hosing in itself.

Anyway, I'm going to get in touch with the dealer who sold me the car (expecting deaf ears) and see if we can work something out. For a 132,000km engine to die in 3 weeks is a bit fishy, my last car was the same model, same engine, and I ran that to 250,000km solid before I sold it (which is why I bought the "new" 406 since I trusted the quality and love this model, the HDI engine is incredible)

If anyone has mechanical experience here, let me know. I still have no idea what exactly is wrong with the engine (in spanish he said, "no compressione, no compressione")

Obviously something is very wrong, but am trying to find out how wrong. I spent 3,000 euros on the car, if I have to tow it back to France and repair at 3,000 euros I might as well junk it, which would be a serious shame, need that car for the winter in Portugal!

Thanks for ideas, clues, advice, and large cash donations

[spider]

Could well of been stuck thermostat, although they do need bleeding when filling with coolant its not good to just pour it in and leave air locks. Could also be water pump impeller coming loose (will turn a bit at idle but not enough for speed runs)

Pouring cold water into a hot engine is also a good way to crack the head too in some cases.

The water being ejected from the coolant tank on cranking / running is a sure sign of the compression getting into the water passages and throwing the coolant out, its going to need a headgasket at a minimum if this happens if not a head if you're unlucky.

[virtualeyes]

Thanks, assumed a major repair given the 3,000 Euro estimate given by the mechanic in Spain

Of course, he wants to keep the vehicle and sell for parts (he asked me if I wanted to abandon the car if I don't pay to tow and get fixed in France) so his estimate may or may not be accurate.

Since it's a bit of a racket between the mechanic (who wants the car for himself, free) and the insurer (who doesn't want to pay to tow it back to France), I'm having the car towed to a Peugeot dealer in the area for another estimate.

Doubt it will be much cheaper, but at least I'll know I'm getting an objective estimate as opposed to a shady, totally biased one. Hopefully the estimate will come in under the cost-of-towing + repair cost formula that the insurer uses to screw the customer out of abiding by the vehicle assistance benefit that you pay 70 euros/month for...

[Peter.N.]

Tell them that when you get the car home you will repair it yourself, that won't come to anything like 3000 euros. The original problem might have only been the thermostat but you don't often get away with boiling it more than once. As spider says you are either looking at a gasket or a head. Here are a few ; http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from= ... Categories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Yours is the 8 valve one
As you will see you can get a recon one for £275.00 or a secondhand one even cheaper.

Peter

[virtualeyes]

Peter,

Yes, I told the insurer that I am paying for the repair, so why on earth does the cost of the repair compared to the value of the vehicle have anything at all to do with fulfilling their contractual obligation to tow my car back to France?

The answer is of course, nothing, but by following this "internal protocol", the insurer escapes from paying for the towing. Furthermore, if the mechanic estimates the repair on the high end, chances are the vehicle owner will abandon the vehicle, and then he gets the car for free. Nice racket, no?

Thanks for the eBay link, if I can get the car back to France and fixed for under 1,000 Euros I will have done very well. If not, sell it for parts and cut my losses.

Thought an 406 HDI engine with 132,000km would run like a dream (it did of course until the meltdown, love the HDI turbo-effect and solid acceleration), but I guess it's hit or miss, must have been lucky with the previous 406, bought that with 170,000km on the engine....

[Peter.N.]

Sorry to hear you tale of woe, that's a fear I have when I go to France but fortunately have so far not had a problem. The 406 Hdi is a very tough car, mine has done over 200,000 miles and still runs perfectly but boiling them is about the worst thing that can happen, they are not like the old cast iron engines that you can boil with impunity. Hope you get a satisfactory result.

Peter

[virtualeyes]

Peter, a tale of woe indeed

Slight improvement though, after getting an estimate from the local Peugeot dealer (obviously lower than the shady mechanic), the insurer has agreed to tow my car back to France at their cost.

Road assistance rep that I spoke with said that the "joint de culasse" may be broken, which in English is I believe the head gasket. The repair is not going to be cheap, just depends on how bad the damage is.

Now the question is, have it towed to my local Peugeot dealer, or to a less expensive local mechanic??

Not sure how to handle that, fixing an engine sounds like a complex affair, maybe Peugeot dealer's mechanics can do a "better" job since they work on nothing but Peugeots? I'm going to ask around here, but I have to fax my documents tomorrow to the insurer with the tow-to-garage address specified.

Suggestions appreciated! By the time this is all sorted winter will be over and I'll still be in France, absurd...

[Peter.N.]

Not knowing your locality obviously I can't suggest anyone, the only thing I would say is that an independent is likely to be cheaper and would also fit a second hand head if desired. I would suggest you get in touch with a few friends in your area and see if there is a mutual suggestion. There are lots of these engines about so I would think most mechanics would have had experience. If you can get a suggested garage, contact them and see if they sound competent. 'Which' magazine do a recommended service scheme, if you know anyone that subscribes to it ask them to have a look.

Peter

[virtualeyes]

Had to get the paperwork in, if you delay the insurer makes you pay a storage fee at the local (spanish) garage.

The Peugeot dealer is closed until Jan 3rd so went with a locally based Citroen shop. It's not a big fancy dealership, more repair shop (they have at least 4 mechanics) with a handful of new Citroens parked out front.

They estimated less than 1,000 Euros if only the head gasket is blown; otherwise, up to 2,000 Euros if the engine itself is cooked, which very well may be the case, I full red lined the temperature gage 2X .

Will take @3 weeks for the car to get towed back, but at least that's on the insurer, which means more Euros to throw at the repair.

Thanks for the help here, first true car nightmare scenario -- had I elected to go for the cheap insurance I might still be in Spain!