Bought a Xantia SX HDI sorting minor problems advice

[charentejohn]

Just bought this car after a long search, I am in France where a good example is hard to find.
The one I have bought, a 2001 HDI 90 SX with 115k miles on the clock. No service history but previous owner used it for long journeys so had a lot of work done in the last 18 months, new tyres, hydraulic pump and fluid, abs pump, timing belt, battery, front brake pads and 5 spheres. All done by garage with reciepts.

The car seems sound and runs ok but, being new to the model I would like info on how it should behave and possible causes of minor problems. I have looked around for info and found some but a 'one stop' confirmation of things would help a lot. So.......

Information
This is an SX model so not Hydractive ? (small pipes to struts) rides well just wondered what I have exactly.
No buzzing noise when leaving the car, door open, this is normal ? I looked at others some did some didn't, I think no buzzing is just because not hydractive ?
The car sinks a little in 24 hrs, about 2cm, but then seems to stop. Is this normal and how much should it drop. If it is too much then what should I consider checking replacing ?
The car has Synthetic oil in it, is it ok to just return to non synthetic ? Only that at 10 yrs old stick to manufacturers spec.

Minor problems
Water temp gauge not working, could be just a sender problem ? If so how do I test it - voltage / resistance ?
Clutch travels a bit more than others I drove, just adjust cable ? I have a manual (in French but easy to follow) showing this.
Gearchange very precise but needs to be 'directed' more towards 1and 2 and tends to return to centre, so change from 3 to 2 a little 'notchy' and needs to be positive. Could just be clutch related, gearbox oil was changed for a 75/80 grade.

Suspension / engine bushes
Car has a lot of slight vibrations, not really noticable no steering shake etc, just a little 'off'. I will have the wheels rebalanced as 18 months old and on french city roads can take a pounding. Could this also be worn suspension bushes though, if so which ones should I start with ?
Engine and Gearbox move when accelerating and decelerating, so doing this quickly you can feel the engine move backwards and forwards. Hard to describe but I am sure you know what I mean. Other cars I drove did not seem to do this. I assume this will be engine / gearbox mountings but again which ones to change first ?

I have the car partly as a hobby, used to work on cars when younger, so will want to replace all bushes over time as I intend to keep the car. I need the car to run every day more or less but am looking to do the many small jobs to keep it in top condition.

Any help or general comments appreciated, if anyone knows the answer to just one question please just chip in.
I am just trying to get a feel for what needs doing and what order to do it in, better to ask people who have actually had the problem (or know those who have) and resolved it.

Regards John

[citronut]

it certainly wont buzz when walking away from it, as you say with the small 3.5mm pipes it only has standerd hydraulics, unless you have a swarm of beez in it HE HE,

and i think you should not use mineral oil the least you should use is semi synthetic, and a universal one will be a bit cheaper than a dedicated diesel engine oil,

regards malcolm

regards malcolm

[Old-Guy]

Information
This is an SX model so not Hydractive ? (small pipes to struts) rides well just wondered what I have exactly.
No buzzing noise when leaving the car, door open, this is normal ? I looked at others some did some didn't, I think no buzzing is just because not hydractive ?

Yes, Yes.

The car sinks a little in 24 hrs, about 2cm, but then seems to stop. Is this normal and how much should it drop. If it is too much then what should I consider checking replacing?

It's normal for a Xantia to drop a little when parked, but I see only 5 new spheres, if the centre rear hasn't been changed (should have a date on it) in the last 3 years, change it before too long.

The car has Synthetic oil in it, is it ok to just return to non synthetic ? Only that at 10 yrs old stick to manufacturers spec.

I'd agree that there's little point in using more expensive oil than necessary. More important is to change it regularly (6 months/10,000km). Changing from synthetic, get the engine warm and drain as much as possible (jack up the front of the car only) and of course change the filter.

Clutch travels a bit more than others I drove, just adjust cable ? I have a manual (in French but easy to follow) showing this.

Seems to vary quite a lot from car to car - long clutch travel may indicate fairly recent clutch change.

Engine bushes
Engine and Gearbox move when accelerating and decelerating, so doing this quickly you can feel the engine move backwards and forwards. Hard to describe but I am sure you know what I mean. Other cars I drove did not seem to do this. I assume this will be engine / gearbox mountings but again which ones to change first?

The most likely candidate is the bottom engine bush - at the back beside the differential. Consult posts on here on how to do it.

I'm in much the same position as you - DIY servicing and repairs a combination of resenting paying lots of money to someone else for making an indifferent job of what I can do myself and a desire to keep the car going for as long as possible.

Best of luck

Guy

[CitroJim]

John, welcome to the forum

Just to add to Guy's very comprehensive reply...

The temperature gauge is operated via the engine ECU. There is no separate sender in the HDi for the gauge, there's just one and it does everything. I'd suspect therefore it's a problem in the instruments. To confirm, have a garage run a Lexia diagnosis on it to read the engine coolant temperature directly to ensure the sender is good. It's the only way to be sure.

The HDi engine is a very cool runner in the winter and if the thermostat is faulty the engine will never get hot and possibly never register on the gauge. Does the gauge move at all?

The vibration/engine movement is likely to be the small 'donut' bush in the torque reaction arm attached to the top engine mount. Follw the arm back to where it terminates on an alloy casting attached to the inner wing. In there is the small bush and these fail very frequently on the HDi. Replacement is easy but you have to buy the whole alloy casting complete; the bush itself is not available separately...

The clutch should be automatically adjusting. If it feels very heavy in operation than this is a sign of wear. A 90 HDi clutch should feel very light in operation.

Enjoy the car, they're very good

[Old-Guy]

Jim is of course correct about the engine mount - for some reason I was thinking 1.9TD!

[charentejohn]

Thank you everyone for your replies, just what I was looking for a nudge in the right direction. As the song says 'an inch is better than an mile in the right direction'.

The clutch is light enough just seems to travel a bit, good to know they vary. Doubt it has been changed as the seller had bills for everything in the last 3 years, so just how it is.

Slight sinking ok, I will monitor it but over 24 hrs and still at just the initial sinking. Probably due in part to slight initial leakage past the valve or compression of the fluid after the pump has stopped.

For the engine movement I guess the clue is in the name of the 'torque reaction bar'. Shame the manual doesn't call it that, I will give it a try. I will change all bushes but in the order commented on.

I will stick with synthetic oil after checking the seals for leaks. Spoke to a friend who uses it and also checked the net. Seems it will loosen all sludge and gunge so would cause leaks on worn seals, also release slugge into the oil. So someone recommended 'flushing' with synthetic then doing a real change. As it has been there 9 months I will call that flushing if no leaks and change the oil now.

It is cool here and air from the blowers, 3/4 heat, was not hot. Currently 10C here (can hit 40C in summer) so could be ok, gauge did not move as far as I can see.

Question - is the sender part of the ECU or goes through the ECU ? So basically it is a gauge problem ?

Like yourself Old Guy (old guy too) I just want to keep the car as near to spot on, perfect is too much to ask, as I can. I noted there wasn't any real specific non Activa Xantia club and looked for a place to deposit actual info. That said some excellent info sites, just finding them and understanding what is written, only way I know is to get out the spanners and do it so that is next.

I have always liked the car, could have bought a C5 which is ok but not the same. Nice shape, when they actually build shuttle craft to take people to the enterprise they will look like this.
Well made and not as complex as people think. I read elsewhere that once you understand the way it works it is easy to diagnose and fix. That is what I am trying to do. I bought it because it is interesting and worth preserving.

Thanks again and any more comments welcome.

[citroenxm]

You can always tell when the doughnut mounting has broken you always get a knock when changing gears are accelerating hard... The mounts are not expensive either i think stealer only at around £25 inclusive.. I just bought one last week for a customer..

Paul

[RichardW]

HDi 90 doesn't use the torque reaction link to the inner wing, the top mount is similar to the 1.9TD....

[charentejohn]

Just been checking in the handbook and they do a diagram of the mountings, needless to say one og the 3 mountings they show has 2 options......
I can buy online from here at reasonable prices http://www.oscaro.com/citroen-xantia-ii ... 112-2125-t" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; About £100 if I was to change them all, and over a few months I probably will. Just the usual online problem of not being able to see the part so I will need to see the actual engine mountings and measure them before buying, some obvious some not.

Drove the car again today and engine movement there but not as bad as I remembered.
Probably first drive home paranoia, where every little noise seems exagerated as you think 'was this a good idea or not ?'
I will change the main ones asap but not so worried now

On the sinking overnight I believe you were right, afer 12 hrs or so drops 1-2cm but then stops and hadn't moved visibly over the next 36 hrs so looks ok.

Ordered new oil and air filters, air filter was a nice dusty grey colour all over. Nice easy job and a 'getting to know you' job on the car, will be able to check the engine mounts at the same time.

[Derekofpriory]

Hi all, With regard to the temp gauge not working, if you arrange a lexia session and it says engine temp -40 degrees C this is possibly the multi-way connector below the battery on the left inner wing, if the gods are smiling on you a quick waggle and spray with contact cleaner or similar may sort it if not a bit of tracing to find the break in the connection between sender and ECU. As an aside if the ECU thinks engine is at -40 this ought to alter fueling but after fixing it on our SX Hdi there was no noticeable change in consumption

[charentejohn]

Thanks I will try that but without the Lexia test as being an ex electrician I actually own a can of elecrical contact cleaner.

I just looked up what 'Lexia' is and think my local(ish) garage should have the software and tester to do this. He is not a Citroen garage just independent local but well recommended and Citroens are his favourite / speciality. I will try a quick clean but if no change then I will ask him to check.

These are all the little things I want to fix and understand along the way.

[CitroJim]

HDi 90 doesn't use the torque reaction link to the inner wing, the top mount is similar to the 1.9TD....

Thanks Richard I made a bit of an assumption there that they were the same as the 110