Xantia Exhaust

RichG · Post by **RichG** » 16 Aug 2003, 03:01

Xantia 1.9TD Estate 1998 Pre-facelift (the car not me!) 46000 miles
Just come back from South Wales with our caravan, we live in Stockport. Just outside Fishguard the car started being noisy and rattling at the back. Closer examination revealed that the exhaust had broken at the entry to the rear silencer box. Luckly the Citroen designers had placed a cross member between the rear wheels for the broken end of the exhaust to rest on so we got home safely but noisily. The car seemed to perform better as well! As the Citroen garage want about £420.00 +vat for the job my questions are:-
1) Is it worth just replacing the rear box or should I replace the whole system.
2) Is it a DIY job? If so what parts do I need. The system appears to consist of a long plain pipe, except for the catalyst, and the rear silencer. There appears to only be the one silencer.
3) As I hate Kwik-Fit can anybody reccomend another exhaust place who may do the job carefully. A quick scan of GSF reveals that the parts, if I have the correct ones, will cost me about £240.00 +vat.
Just as an aside whilst we were on holiday my daughter opened the rear passenger side door and the rubber stip fell onto the floor. 4 of the 7 plastic clips had broke and allowed the strip to move backwards and fall off. I have got some more clips so I will repair it this weekend.
Thanks
Richard Green

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 16 Aug 2003, 03:22

Richard -
Replacing the exhaust in whole - or partly - is one of the most common DIY jobs for any car owner.
The reason I guess - is the huge satisfaction of being allowed to remove some really dodgy parts - and replace with new ones [:D]
- and the ever so nice sounding car afterwards [8D]
Since the parts in need of replacement ARE dodgy - they're usaully VERY easy to remove : hacksaw all bits away [}:)] - enjoying your violent work [:o)]
The rear box gone - rest of the system commonly not far behind - except for the cat - which is designed to last longer - and most often does so.
What you need is a complete ex-cat replacement kit - with all the fitting bits supplied.
There is one snag though : most quick-fit (or similar) outlets do the job so cheap - that there aint really no quids saving in doing it DIY.
But DIY has one BIG advantage : you'll ALLWAYS care for correct fitting of parts - ensuring the correct clearance to underbody parts.
And that's really the only (and very big) difference.
I know what you're talking about on quick-fits : allways had to loosen all clamps and re-locate the piping - to get rid of VERY annoying clonkig sounds - after aquiring the car with newly fitted exhaust.
They do the job for money - you do the job for best driving performance [8D]

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 16 Aug 2003, 05:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RichG

1) Is it worth just replacing the rear box or should I replace the whole system.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I had mine break at exactly the same place. The local exhaust place took half a day to get hold of the part (rear box only) then when it came to fitting it did the old teeth sucking routine and tried to flog me the centre section as well, assuring me it would only last a couple of weeks.
The cost didn't bother me so much as the length of time it had already taken to get hold of a part they said they could get within an hour so I told him to just fit the box and I would come back when the centre section went.
I lied - about going back, I took it elsewhere over 18 months later having passed 2 MOTs in the meantime.
So I would say just replace the back box.
I do know one reputable tyre and exhaust place, where I have never been ripped off, and have used for many years, but it's in Huddersfield (and may be the only one in the UK).[V]

mbunting · Post by **mbunting** » 16 Aug 2003, 12:57

I've got a back box that I need to replace on mine.
I intend to use the mountings already in place instead of buying a new one, and the ring clamp will be re-used as well.
It looks like a case of undo the ring, snap open the mounting clamps, and drop the new box in, is this the case ( 1.9TD no cat )
Am I making a longer term mistake by re-using them ?

RichG · Post by **RichG** » 16 Aug 2003, 14:58

The 'cat' on the car is obround in cross section and welded into the front pipe although I have heard that it is not a 'cat' but is a 'particulate filter'.
A previous thread mentioned that it was possible to replace the front pipe for one that did not have a 'cat' but the jury was out then as to whether that would be legal. The car was built in Sept 1997, according to the RP number but was first registered in May 1998.
One of my friends has a 1998 facelift 1.9TD where the front pipe failed at the weld to the 'cat' earlier this year so I am considering doing without the thing. Another thread mentioned that a clogged exhaust caused a power loss which is another reason to put in a new plain pipe (it also appears to be alot cheaper [:)].
Richard Green

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 16 Aug 2003, 19:25

The rear box on my 2.1TD failed at the joint where the stub end joins the front of the box. I was rather annoyed at that because the car was only two years old with 25K on the clock. Also I happened to be towing the caravan across Spain at the time. A new box couldn't be found, but a local garage removed it and welded the joint, all for £15. The weld lasted for another year. It's a simple job to fit a new one. Get the back end on ramps. Remove the clip and I found it better to fit a 2-part new one. Remove the two rubber hangers. To fit the new one, reverse the order.
I disagree with Anders - I've found on diesel Citroens, the front pipes last almost as long as the car. When I said 'goodbye' to my BXTZD at 100K, it had only ever had one new rear box.

wrinklet1 · Post by **wrinklet1** » 16 Aug 2003, 20:58

I have had both the rear box and last week the downpipe on my Xantia 1.9TDSX. I got the parts from a local GSF on trafford park which is just around the corner from you in Stockport. Going from Stockport take the 1st turning for the trafford centre then onto the duel carriageway to the big roundabout go all the way round as if your going back onto the duel carriageway but take the turning just before it, you will see the red GSF signs. The guys are really helpfull. If your in the citroen car club tell them and you may get discount, I did.
A local garage fitted the system for only £20 a local exhaust place wanted £120 for the system fitted.

RichG · Post by **RichG** » 17 Aug 2003, 02:02

Thanks for all the advice.
This morning I put the back of the car on ramps and inspected the system. The front pipe appears to be sound so I went and bought a rear box from GSF in Trafford Park (where I had previously bought replacement spheres from).
Taking the old box off was easy. Just slide the rubber bushes from the mounts on the car. These bushes can then be moved to the new exhaust remembering to bend over the tabs. Getting the clamp off was another matter. This required Plus-gas, a blow torch and plenty of grunting to get the nut to undo. The clamp then needs alot of persuasion to release. As Haynes say assembly is the reversal of removal. I would advise the use of fire cement paste on the joint as I could not get it to seal without (after 5 tries).
Other than the inlet flange coming off the silencer it appears to be in good contion. I will have to see how long this box lasts.
Richard Green

puddle jumper · Post by **puddle jumper** » 17 Aug 2003, 02:40

I repaired mine by welding a tube to the silencer (that was as sound as a new one) that fitted inside the down pipe. this eliminated the need for the flange that seals the downpipe to the silencer and also helps carry the weight of the silencer. for reference the exhaust pipe on a mercedes 308d van is an exact fit

pwatson · Post by **pwatson** » 17 Aug 2003, 03:02

Seems to be a weakness doesn't it? Ours has just gone on our HDi 93 yrs old, 60k) while towing the caravan in France. Went to nearest Norauto (French Quikfit?) who said we would probably need a whole new system including cat for about £500, otherwise rear box would be £120. Luckily they didn't have one in stock. Went to main Cit dealer in Bordeaux who said only rear box needed - they didn't have one either! Drivving back to camp site (occasional rattle from pipe on cross-member, otherwise not too noisy) wheen we called at a LeClerc supermarket with Auto centre who had a rear box and fitted it for £75 there and then. Were we done? Don't know but at least it's fixed.
Seems a daft bit of design to have to replace the whole lot for the sake of a poor weld - the "broken" rear box looked as good as new to me except for where the weld had gone, as did the rest of the pipe. But then, as the bloke at Norauto said "It is a Citroen and it is French!!"

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 17 Aug 2003, 17:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pwatson
fitted it for £75 there and then. Were we done? Don't know but at least it's fixed.
Seems a daft bit of design to have to replace the whole lot for the sake of a poor weld
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
£75 for a rear box is just about right. It isn't so much a poor weld as a thin-walled piece of tubing. I think they have found a way to build in obsolescence to rear boxes. Previously, we've had a BX diesel that didn't need doing for 99000 miles and a diesel 205 that did 82000 on its original box - but it was 13 years old.

Jonesy · Post by **Jonesy** » 18 Aug 2003, 01:03

Richard,
If its any consolation exactly the same thing happened last week to my late 98 2.1TD. As you correctly say when it breaks the front pipe rests on the rear anti-roll bar. Mine was making a dreadful rattling noise.
I was a little dissapointed as the car is less than five years old and is obviously a design flaw in the pipe. Luckily for me I have welding facilities so removed the pipe and welded it and the car was back together within the hour.
As JohnD pointed out the metal is far too thin for the strain that is put on it, but luckily because the piece is so short that connects to the rear silencer, I have actually welded mine inside as well as out.

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 20 Aug 2003, 01:41

It does seem to be a design fault. And one carried over from the BX at that.
I think the box being in-line, builds up dirt on the forward face which holds moisture. And being so far from the engine there isn't enough heat to keep it dry so it is a perfect place for rust to thrive.