Head gasket on C5 2.0 HDI

[ashy90]

How easy or difficult is it to do a head gasket change on a 2.0 hdi engine in a C5?

Have been looking at cheap Xantia's - some spares or repairs (hence my other recent threads) but come across a C5 with what sounds like head gasket failure. It is a 2.0 HDI and the cooling system is over-pressurising.

Are these reasonably easy engines to work on? I have done headgaskets on Rover k series and Vauxhall 8v engines before.

[citroenxm]

Anything is easyer then a k series and they still work afterwards...

They arent bad to do they are a dry liner engine however.. The manifolds are an absolute PIG to get off in situ... The turbo has to come off before the inlet as the exhaust manifold obscures the inlet bolts... In the xantia theres no room to remove or get at the centre bolts... Though theres a bit more roomvin a c5 ive not actually done a c5 one yet...

Once the manifolds are off its rather straight forward...due to bolt access id recomend engine out for ease... Else a damm good stuggle and needng to leave bolts out afterwards when reassembling...

Paul

[ashy90]

Anything is easyer then a k series and they still work afterwards...

They arent bad to do they are a dry liner engine however.. The manifolds are an absolute PIG to get off in situ... The turbo has to come off before the inlet as the exhaust manifold obscures the inlet bolts... In the Xantia theres no room to remove or get at the centre bolts... Though theres a bit more roomvin a c5 ive not actually done a c5 one yet...

Once the manifolds are off its rather straight forward...due to bolt access id recomend engine out for ease... Else a damm good stuggle and needng to leave bolts out afterwards when reassembling...

Paul

Hmmmm. Not being funny but have you ever touched a k series yourself? As you say 'anything is easier than a k series' and finish with 'id recomend engine out for ease'? Urrrmmmm....a k series I personally find is a very very nice engine to work on generally, and certainly no need remove the engine to do a headgasket thats for sure! I am by no means a well experienced mechanic however I could replace a k series headgasket, do the entire job and have the car back up and running again in a day if I wanted to - never had one that doesnt work afterwards either (that would be down to an incompetant mechanic)

So, back to the c5, pig to get the manifolds off then? Cannot be arsed with an engine out job.

[mlkey]

You need to remove the offside top engine mount, so supporting from below is required. I did mine with no trouble, first diesel I have done. Recommend replacing the head bolts (stretch variety) and the injector pipes (saves the hassle of leaks for £20). Also worth doing cambelt and water pump at the same time, then you should have a sound motor. As for manifolds, the exhaust is awkward to get to, but everything is manageable with a little patience.

[Deanxm]

Ive not done a c5 myself but have lent a hand and they are a little bit of a faf due to all the stuff bolted to them, but if the price is right its only time nothing more, certainly a lot more of a pita than a K by a long way, i dont think you will have the head of any derv off in a couple of hours.

D

[citroenxm]

Hmmmm. Not being funny but have you ever touched a k series yourself? As you say 'anything is easier than a k series' and finish with 'id recomend engine out for ease'? Urrrmmmm....a k series I personally find is a very very nice engine to work on generally, and certainly no need remove the engine to do a headgasket thats for sure! I am by no means a well experienced mechanic however I could replace a k series headgasket, do the entire job and have the car back up and running again in a day if I wanted to - never had one that doesnt work afterwards either (that would be down to an incompetant mechanic)

So, back to the c5, pig to get the manifolds off then? Cannot be arsed with an engine out job.[/quote]

yes actually i have done a rover 200 bubble shape 1400 head gasket and i agree it wasnt hard but why is it so hard to stop them being machined and fixed a second time round... Even a rover nut told me they dont like being re skimmed and fitted..

The k series is otherwise a very revvy and sporty little engine i cant deny that at all...

[citroenxm]

What i meant was by anything is easyer is once done correctly then all should be well thpugh the k series has a habit of going a second time...often then not....unless im also mis informed of that aswell....

[Gibbo2286]

You're not misinformed Citro but it's all down to poor workmanship and lack of knowledge about the motor, I used to buy all the K series Rovers very cheaply at auction because of the gossip, never had a head gasket job that needed doing twice, the problem they had was mostly due to ham fisted mechanics breaking the seals at the bottom of the liners when lifting the head off.

[ashy90]

You need to remove the offside top engine mount, so supporting from below is required. I did mine with no trouble, first diesel I have done. Recommend replacing the head bolts (stretch variety) and the injector pipes (saves the hassle of leaks for £20). Also worth doing cambelt and water pump at the same time, then you should have a sound motor. As for manifolds, the exhaust is awkward to get to, but everything is manageable with a little patience.

Yours is a C5 2.0 HDI? How long did the whole job take you, and also is there any special tools required?

[ashy90]

yes actually i have done a rover 200 bubble shape 1400 head gasket and i agree it wasnt hard but why is it so hard to stop them being machined and fixed a second time round... Even a rover nut told me they dont like being re skimmed and fitted..

The k series is otherwise a very revvy and sporty little engine i cant deny that at all...

Not sue what you mean by hard to stop them being machined? Am guessing you mean they cant be skimmed?

K series cylinder heads idealy should not be skimmed - as it supposedly removes a hardened/heat protected cure put on during manufacturer. You can get away with a LIGHT skim. However, the only time a k series should ever require skimming is if the head has been overheated enough to damage or warp the surface - but if its overheated enough to warp or damage the surface, then the chances are the head will have gone soft and should be scrap and NOT re-used. Quite often k series heads get indented rings around the combustion chambers of the head - again, this means the engine has severely overheated and the head has gone soft. Again, the head should not be re-used.

Another thing, if the engine has REALLY overheated - big style, then apparantly the liners can drop or move (this is something I have never seen though). Also when choosing the headgasket, the liner heighs should be taken into account. The new multi layer steel is great, however has a lower tolerance of low liner heights.

All to often is the case that mechanics who do not fully understand or appreciate the relative complexity of the engine, just skim a load off the head (when its really scrap perhaps) wack a new head gasket on without bothering to check the liner heights etc, dont even bother to find out why it failed in the first place (water pump and inlet manifold gasket both common) and hand the car back saying its fixed.

I have never skimmed a k series head - have replaced, but not skimmed. ALL of the cars I have replaced the headgasket on are in daily use running 100%.

[Deanxm]

liner drop is more common on the 1.6 with thinner liner walls and the stroked 1.8's ive had a couple with liner drop but yes the engine has to have been driven without water for miles, your right about misconception, a lot of head issues are from overheating due to lack of water as they have no coolant level warning as standard, this then upsets the head a litle.

If you just skim the anealed head and stick it back together the firing rings of the head gasket just sink back into the head again and it fails, you can skim the head and fit the head saver shim to spread the clamping force of the firing rings but this must be used with the mls gasket. In turn you can only use the mls gasket if the liner heights are at least 3 thou above the deck, if they are not you have to use the elastomer gasket which is fine but you need a good head.

I think this is where the negative press comes from about them, people do the gaskets but dont research it properly and end up re-using a scrap head or using an mls gasket with flush liners etc etc.

Sorry is this the fcf

Are you going to have a go at the HDI then? would make a nice car when all done................
D

[mlkey]

Yours is a C5 2.0 HDI? How long did the whole job take you, and also is there any special tools required?

It was, I recently swapped it in for a petrol version. I should qualify what I am about to say with the fact that I probably went over the top when I did my repair, and it was a cold February working outside in the snow, freezing my n*ts off with not many daylight hours. I did it over 3 weekends mainly because it was too cold to stay outside for long. I also decided to get the head skimmed, and I stripped it completely and cleaned and polished the ports etc.

To answer your question, if you just want to throw a head gasket at it, you should be able to get it done inside 8 hours, maybe less. You can check the notches on the head gasket, they are visible on a tab on the side of the engine facing he radiator. You will need a torx bit for the head bolts, an angle gauge, and two 8mm pins for the timing. Aside from that, don't really think there were any surprises. I reckon you will want to at the very least decoke the head, so personally would allow a weekend.

[mike1986123]

hi all just bought a 2001 hdi cheap never done a head gasket on a diesel and having problems taking off the manifold at the back stripped everything at the front off but really having problems with this do i go from underneath or from the top where abouts are the bolts to take off manifold and turbo ?? and how long does the job normally take been on it for about a day all ready if anyone has got any advice it would be very welcome helpppppppppppp