Xantia cam belt snap = engine damage?

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JamesQB
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Xantia cam belt snap = engine damage?

Post by JamesQB »

Hi everyone,
My parent's Xantia petrol 1.8i 1996 recently just cut out while sitting in a traffic jam. A mechanic looked at it and said that the cam belt had snapped.
Does anyone know if these engines are designed so that extensive engine damage doesn't occur when the belt goes or can the pistons hit any valves that were fully open at the time of the belt going?
There was no noise at all when the engine died and subsequent attempts at trying to start it produced no unusual noises at all. Only thing noted was that the engine was turning over a bit sluggishly.
Thanks,
James
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Post by David W »

James,
This engine is classed as one where damage is likely. Sadly even more damage can be caused by constantly turning it over to try and start....but that is everyone's natural reaction.
You might be lucky though...some folks have been.
My experience on engines in general is that a belt breaking on the motorway is most likely to trash most of the valves and sometimes mean only a new head is economic.
Breaking at idle may mean just a couple of valves bent.
Good luck.
David
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JamesQB
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Post by JamesQB »

Thank you for your reply David.
Wouldn't the damage cause noise though? The driver says that there was no sound at all, the engine simply cut out as though there was no fuel.
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Post by Dave Burns »

You don't hear a dicky bird its all over that fast.
Check to see if this is one of those engines that were recalled, if it is, and it didn't get the modification then you may be in with a shout at getting it done bookshe, or at least some payment towards the repair.
Dave
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Post by AndersDK »

James -
Only the first 1-2 engine rev's with stuck valves wil bend the valves out of the way - then only light tapping MAY occur from a still running-on engine.
The valves are simply bend/pushed out of the way instantly by the pistons - and then the piston moves freely again.
Note that the piston surface usually also is damaged by this - even the pistons may be pierced instead of the valves bend.
It's a common problem on all modern engines - any make - since manufacturers all the time is narrowing in tolerances/clearances on all moving parts - to produce most efficient & pollution free engines.
Older engine types from about the 70'es & back - usually survives such misshaps - because the valves usually clears the pistons - in any thought position.
The only engine types not opposed to such problems - is the rotating piston engines (i.e. W a n k e l engines) - and slide valve engines. But these engine types have for long been obsolete due to other reasons/problems.
(D J W please let's have some interesting comments on this - from your acknowledged deep engine expertise [:)])
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Post by Linegeist »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by AndersDK</i>
The only engine types not opposed to such problems - is the rotating piston engines (i.e. W a n k e l engines) - and slide valve engines. But these engine types have for long been obsolete due to other reasons/problems.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I'm given to understand that 2 strokes are similarly immune to such maladies - I wonder why?[;)]
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Post by AndersDK »

Now you mention it - I wonder too [:D][:D][:D]
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Post by JamesQB »

Thank you all for your replies. I just wanted to check as my parents are elderly and living far away from me. I and others were concerned that the garage involved might be pulling a fast one. A mechanic was called to the car at the roadside initially, he looked under the bonnet, then looked in the fusebox and then turned the engine over. At this point he exclaimed that the engine was turning over too sluggishly and told my father that the cam belt had probably snapped which would have caused engine damage and he wasn't able to do the job due to its complexity and his not having the necessary special tools.
He said that he worked for a garage a couple of days a week, and that he could ring them and get the car in. This was agreed to and he arranged for the car to be taken there but my parents spoke to no mechanics there themselves until a phone call today informed them that the cam belt had broken and the engine was heavily damaged - repair cost £600 - £700.
We were concerned that the roadside inspection wasn't good enough to give such a firm diagnosis and wondered if the roadside part-timer gave his beliefs and the garage decided that since my parents had been told the cam belt had gone, they'd stick with that even if it wasn't the problem...
Hopefully I'm wrong.
Anyway, thanks again.
James
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Post by Homer »

Having suffered a snapped cambelt myself I can say it is very undramatic. Engine died and the car just coasted to the side of the road. Not even any real engine braking.
If you are still concerned that they are being ripped off then ask the garage if they mind having it inspected by a 3rd party (AA, RAC, etc ?).
I'm not sure about the engine turning sluggishly as a symptom of a broken cambelt. Mine spun a lot faster than usual. Although if they have spent a while trying to start it then they may have drained the battery.
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Post by Dave Burns »

Just to add a bit more on the subject.
Years ago before I saw the light and rode about in sheds like mk3 cortinas, urgh, I used to let them belts run till they snapped as no engine damage was possible, simply stuff a new belt on and drive off again.
However when the belt did break, the engine turned over extremely fast on the starter as there was no compressing going on, an engine with a broken belt is unmistakeable when you hear it on the starter, no fluctuation in cranking speed as there are no propper compression strokes, it should turn over very briskly.
An engine turning over slower that normal does not sound like one with a broken belt, investigate this more thouroughly by removing the timing cover or part of it so you can see if the belt is still in one piece or not, if its still intact, have the engine turned on the starter to see if the belt moves in time, have known them strip teeth off and just sit there.
Dave
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Post by JamesQB »

Hello again.
The garage has come back to say that they've inspected further and now know the extent of the damage. Apparently the belt has snapped and a valve has been bent. We don't know if it's really only one valve or if it's damaged the piston that hit it or what. The mechanic just said that it's time not parts that cost with this kind of a job.
The fixed price now given is £564. That seems a great deal to me, I'd like to know what other think though, please?
James
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Post by Dave Burns »

Well if that really was the damage done then I don't think that price is to far from what to expect in this day and age, its a lot of work and the xantia can be a bugger to work on when it comes to taking heads off.
Anyone not knowing their way round an engine ought to know someone that does that might help with their opinion as to what is wrong, a major component failure such as this is easily checked for.
Also a proper diagnosis should be given by any of the main breakdown outfits such as RAC and AA when this type of catastrophy strikes.
Dave
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Post by franciscolunn »

Yes james that price seems to be about right i know of a similar job on my friends recently(also a xantia)for £600, he paid up and is happy now its all over.Remember though you can pick up decent Xantias now for as low as £1000 even less if you want an earlier one than '96
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Post by JamesQB »

Thank you for your input, makes me rest a bit easier. Thing is, my parents live in Spain and being so far away it worries me... pensions aren't what they used to be.
Thanks again :)
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Post by alan s »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by franciscolunn</i>

Yes james that price seems to be about right i know of a similar job on my friends recently(also a xantia)for £600, he paid up and is happy now its all over.Remember though you can pick up decent Xantias now for as low as £1000 even less if you want an earlier one than '96
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Biggest problem with that line of thinking is that you spend a thousand and a month down the track have an "action replay" and end up having to outlay the price of the job plus the added thousand spent on a car that you don't know; hence the saying "The devil you know.........................."
Alan S[:D]
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