Why are 'luxurious' cars still rear drive?
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Why are 'luxurious' cars still rear drive?
For anyone who followed the off-topic 'discussion' about the ins and outs of rear wheel drive/front engine on another thread, here is the place to have that argument over which makes more sense - on public roads, not on a racetrack.
I can see the benefits of both, have driven good rear drive cars many thousands of miles (and continue to do so) but why are the expensive brands still largely RWD/fe when many genuine performance cars (Porsche, for example) have the engine over the driven wheels?
I reckon it's for two reasons, beyond the mis-guided snobbery. Firstly because the purchasers want a product where the controls are as refined as possible - and the steering on a rear drive car is usually better because of the front tyres doing a lot less work - the engine will probably be huge and put out 300 and more lb/ft. Any lack of traction is generally irrelevant as these cars are usually driven in the 'wafting' fashion, maybe with a chaffeur.
Mentioning the chaffeur introduces the second reason for the odd engineering. In a shoot-out or potential hostage situation, a powerful RWD/fe car can be made to turn 180 degrees in a very tight space, whereas a front drive/all wheel drive one cannot. Any ensuing chase is a race, where pedestrians and other obstacles may be disregarded. In this situation, a very powerful RWD/fe car can be controlled more accurately by a driver who has been trained to drive RWD/fe cars very fast.
I wonder whether French gangsters prefered CXs or fast RWD Peugeots? I don't suppose any old French films would give an accurate account of a chase - the good guys usually win!
One point I made elsewhere was the fact that the Nazis often left their powerful Mercedes for 60hp front drive Citroens when chasing Resistance, who were also in Tractions. Presumably because the Mercedes couldn't keep up unless on a straight road (which the Resistance presumably avoided!)
I may add a poll later, something along the lines of 'If you were in a chase, which car layout would you choose?'
I can see the benefits of both, have driven good rear drive cars many thousands of miles (and continue to do so) but why are the expensive brands still largely RWD/fe when many genuine performance cars (Porsche, for example) have the engine over the driven wheels?
I reckon it's for two reasons, beyond the mis-guided snobbery. Firstly because the purchasers want a product where the controls are as refined as possible - and the steering on a rear drive car is usually better because of the front tyres doing a lot less work - the engine will probably be huge and put out 300 and more lb/ft. Any lack of traction is generally irrelevant as these cars are usually driven in the 'wafting' fashion, maybe with a chaffeur.
Mentioning the chaffeur introduces the second reason for the odd engineering. In a shoot-out or potential hostage situation, a powerful RWD/fe car can be made to turn 180 degrees in a very tight space, whereas a front drive/all wheel drive one cannot. Any ensuing chase is a race, where pedestrians and other obstacles may be disregarded. In this situation, a very powerful RWD/fe car can be controlled more accurately by a driver who has been trained to drive RWD/fe cars very fast.
I wonder whether French gangsters prefered CXs or fast RWD Peugeots? I don't suppose any old French films would give an accurate account of a chase - the good guys usually win!
One point I made elsewhere was the fact that the Nazis often left their powerful Mercedes for 60hp front drive Citroens when chasing Resistance, who were also in Tractions. Presumably because the Mercedes couldn't keep up unless on a straight road (which the Resistance presumably avoided!)
I may add a poll later, something along the lines of 'If you were in a chase, which car layout would you choose?'
PeterN: "Honest John's forum put the last nail in the coffin of owning a 2000- car. Many were still servicable, but CR, DMFs and needing fault codes read because your horn doesn't work - no thanks. All my life I have generally understood cars - until now."
Simple, cost !
Wrong wheel drive, ooops, excuse me, front wheel drive cars are cheaper to manufacture. Rear wheel drive is superior in all ways for handling, road holding and grip but is costly to produce so is more viable for expensive cars where the manufacturer can charge a premium.
The Porsche 911 type drive configuration is also flawed but has become a dare not mess with car for Porsche for fear of losing sales from chinless city types ! The Cayman is a much better car because the engine is forward of the axle but Porsche won't give it the power it deserves as it would show the 911 up !!
Front wheel drive is also more practical from a space and packaging perspective.
Of course, the best of both worlds is 4WD with variable torque split.
It is for good reason that ALL proper race cars are RWD.
Wrong wheel drive, ooops, excuse me, front wheel drive cars are cheaper to manufacture. Rear wheel drive is superior in all ways for handling, road holding and grip but is costly to produce so is more viable for expensive cars where the manufacturer can charge a premium.
The Porsche 911 type drive configuration is also flawed but has become a dare not mess with car for Porsche for fear of losing sales from chinless city types ! The Cayman is a much better car because the engine is forward of the axle but Porsche won't give it the power it deserves as it would show the 911 up !!
Front wheel drive is also more practical from a space and packaging perspective.
Of course, the best of both worlds is 4WD with variable torque split.
It is for good reason that ALL proper race cars are RWD.
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That's a strange fact you keep digging upOne point I made elsewhere was the fact that the Nazis often left their powerful Mercedes for 60hp front drive Citroëns when chasing Resistance, who were also in Tractions. Presumably because the Mercedes couldn't keep up unless on a straight road (which the Resistance presumably avoided!)
Is that why Steve McQueen couldn't get away from Germans..........even on a motorbike ?
Fwd v rear. I can't remember which was best
Are you guys telling me that my old Mexico and Rover V8S and Triumph PI had better handling than V6 Xantia ? I need to think about this
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Bit of a weird thread but FWD is mainly to move the masses and give a cheap, quiet and compact package, RWD is firstly more fun but also more manouverable in certain situations and they tend to drive a lot cleaner in my experience, no torque steer etc etc BUT the worst car i ever had was a M reg BMW 520i, handled like a shopping trolly full of spuds dispite its low miles and full service book so the arguement one is better than the other is utter rubbish.
With either you need throttle control, most front wheel drives dont understeer if you drive them right just the same as most modern RWD's dont keep trying to point you where you have just been but if you cant drive the car wont help you.
4WD is of course an answer but you loose a lot of power in the drivetrain, its expensive as hell to produce and more so to maintain (especialy if its in a BX)
Anyway, in my veiw it doesnt make too much difference what wheels are driven but i wouldnt buy a FWD TVR, a RWD Rangerover would be useless and a 4WD Micra would be stupid..................
D
With either you need throttle control, most front wheel drives dont understeer if you drive them right just the same as most modern RWD's dont keep trying to point you where you have just been but if you cant drive the car wont help you.
4WD is of course an answer but you loose a lot of power in the drivetrain, its expensive as hell to produce and more so to maintain (especialy if its in a BX)
Anyway, in my veiw it doesnt make too much difference what wheels are driven but i wouldnt buy a FWD TVR, a RWD Rangerover would be useless and a 4WD Micra would be stupid..................
D
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Any Micra. Nasty little tin boxes...Deanxm wrote: and a 4WD Micra would be stupid..................
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Open the sunrooof and use it as a moneybox...Deanxm wrote:good for putting biscuits in though
D
..or a skip...
No, actually Micras are used extensively by the highways agencies as traffic calming and speed control devices... In their nomenclature they're known as 'Mobile Chicanes'
Be honest now, has anyone actually witnessed a Micra proceeding at more then 40MPH?
...I rest my case...
Jim
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are they capable of 40mph even when piloted by the living?
D
D
Last edited by Deanxm on 03 Oct 2011, 19:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
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When instructing "blues and two's" I always warn students about two groups of vehicles that generally have a poor reaction to emergency vehicles on blues, one is nissan Micra's, the other Volvo's. I presume that Micra's are bought by many who view cars as white goods and have little interest in inproving their driving/observation skills and many Volvo's are bought by people who realise that their driving skills are so poor that they buy what they think is the safest car as they know they are likely to be involved in a collision for similar reasons.
Its always quite a source of merryment for the students after having been given the briefing to then observe it in action almost as if I've staged it
Its always quite a source of merryment for the students after having been given the briefing to then observe it in action almost as if I've staged it
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Deanxm wrote:are they capable of 40mph even when piloted by the living?
You enjoy cold kebabs then Franklin?Citroening wrote:Micra's are a big hit with a lot of the Takeaway Kebab shop's around here for their delivery cars!
I really do rest my case....DickieG wrote:Its always quite a source of merryment for the students after having been given the briefing to then observe it in action almost as if I've staged it
At the head of any queue you'll be sure to find a Micra...
Jim
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These people are now flocking in their thousands to the Hyundai i10. I swear, i10 drivers are the most horrific on the road. A guaranteed 29 MPH in a 30 zone!DickieG wrote:I presume that Micra's are bought by many who view cars as white goods and have little interest in inproving their driving/observation skills
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Deanxm wrote:are they capable of 40mph even when piloted by the living?
D
Oh yes, if driven properly they can even get up to 60, I had one while my megane was having it's wing replaced, however no amount of bouncing and yelling "Go! Go! Micra power!" could get it up to 70mph.
Once it did let me nearly select reverse doing 50mph though...
Well, it's their fault for putting it in the same place as the megane's 6th
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