Any Auto box guru's on here (Non Citroen)
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- gadgetgricey
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Any Auto box guru's on here (Non Citroen)
Wife's going to kill me as just bought another car, and may be buying another one soon Our Garden is going to look like the Tesco Express Car Park soon.
Anyhoo the one I've just bought is an old Saab 9000 Auto. Bought it off a mate from another forum, and fully aware the gearbox had issues.
Two issues, one an inconvenience the second a problem.
1) When Changing up from 1st to 2nd the gearbox makes a whining noise almost like a siren, whilst the car chages gear. If driving slowly the noise only lasts a second. If giving it the beans, the noise last longer. Dont think auto's have clutches, but its almost like the clutch is squealing whilst it changes gear. As I say this only happens from 1st to second.
2) Now for the problem. When the car has warmed up, it wont change at all. To and from work for 25 mins, stop start traffic. Not a problem. Took it on the motorway for about 20 mins and when I got off at the junction it refused to change out of first. did manage to get it into 2nd by dropping the selector down to 1, and the moving into 2. even that took about 10 seconds though.
My mate thought it was going to be a gearbox swap, hence why he wanted rid. But the car drives fine until everything is warmed up, so wondered if it was something that could be repaired.
As I say know nothing regarding Auto box's, so just looking for advice, possible faults at this stage.
Thanks again
- Dave -
Anyhoo the one I've just bought is an old Saab 9000 Auto. Bought it off a mate from another forum, and fully aware the gearbox had issues.
Two issues, one an inconvenience the second a problem.
1) When Changing up from 1st to 2nd the gearbox makes a whining noise almost like a siren, whilst the car chages gear. If driving slowly the noise only lasts a second. If giving it the beans, the noise last longer. Dont think auto's have clutches, but its almost like the clutch is squealing whilst it changes gear. As I say this only happens from 1st to second.
2) Now for the problem. When the car has warmed up, it wont change at all. To and from work for 25 mins, stop start traffic. Not a problem. Took it on the motorway for about 20 mins and when I got off at the junction it refused to change out of first. did manage to get it into 2nd by dropping the selector down to 1, and the moving into 2. even that took about 10 seconds though.
My mate thought it was going to be a gearbox swap, hence why he wanted rid. But the car drives fine until everything is warmed up, so wondered if it was something that could be repaired.
As I say know nothing regarding Auto box's, so just looking for advice, possible faults at this stage.
Thanks again
- Dave -
C8 - Petrol Auto (Love the electronic doors)
Xantia Hdi Exclusive Estate (gone but not forgotten)
Xantia Hdi Exclusive Estate (gone but not forgotten)
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Your gearbox doesn't have a conventional clutch it has a bundle of hydraulic clutches internally, I suspect your whirring noise is one of those burned out or possibly the torque converter (the bit that replaces the conventional clutch on the flywheel) on its last legs.
A check of the colour of the oil will tell you more, if it's red and clean most likely torque converter, if it's brown and smells burned it will be one of the internal clutches failing. they have paper thin linings designed to run in oil.
The cause of most auto box falures is the driver, one foot on the accelerator and one one the brake all the time.
Internal clutches are sealed with O rings and a common problem is one of these breaking losing the pressure and causing the clutch to spin and burn the lining off.
A check of the colour of the oil will tell you more, if it's red and clean most likely torque converter, if it's brown and smells burned it will be one of the internal clutches failing. they have paper thin linings designed to run in oil.
The cause of most auto box falures is the driver, one foot on the accelerator and one one the brake all the time.
Internal clutches are sealed with O rings and a common problem is one of these breaking losing the pressure and causing the clutch to spin and burn the lining off.
- gadgetgricey
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- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
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And therein a vicious circle is set up, lining material is slouched off and this ends up in the filter which reduces flow and causes more clutch spin..Gibbo2286 wrote: Internal clutches are sealed with O rings and a common problem is one of these breaking losing the pressure and causing the clutch to spin and burn the lining off.
It also contaminates the torque converter and as these cannot be effectively cleaned, a new or refurbished one is the only answer.
Also check all the springs in the valve block - a broken one can cause this kind of behavior.
One thing is sure - the longer you run the car with the gearbox like this, the more damage that will occur. The 'box may be easily rebuildable at the moment but carry on and it may be damaged beyond repair.
Gibbo: interesting comment about most failures occurring because the driver 'rides' the brake. Can you elaborate on how you reach that conclusion?
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
your box will be the trusty 4HP18 and your problem sounds like a hydraulic pressure regulator with bore wear, it could also be regulator seals all of which can be done with the box in the car and for the price of a few seals and a mornings work.
The whining from 1st to 2nd is reasonably common, my XM has done it for the 10 years ive owned it, my Saab 9000 2.3t done it for the 2 years i had it and so have many other cars ive owned with the same box, i have driven a good few that dont too but a good oil change usualy reduces the whine greatly, if the clutch was slipping it would be destroyed very quickly and the box would be full of black muck and the oil would be burnt.
Make sure that the kickdown cable is correctly adjusted and the box is full of clean red D2 transmission fluid, also have a look over and replace the oil filter.
out of interest what mileage has she done? oh nice choice of car too
D
The whining from 1st to 2nd is reasonably common, my XM has done it for the 10 years ive owned it, my Saab 9000 2.3t done it for the 2 years i had it and so have many other cars ive owned with the same box, i have driven a good few that dont too but a good oil change usualy reduces the whine greatly, if the clutch was slipping it would be destroyed very quickly and the box would be full of black muck and the oil would be burnt.
Make sure that the kickdown cable is correctly adjusted and the box is full of clean red D2 transmission fluid, also have a look over and replace the oil filter.
out of interest what mileage has she done? oh nice choice of car too
D
XM Prestige PRV6 92
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Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
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Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
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Ive got a couple of 4hp18's - one off a PRV XM V6, the other off a TCT Turbo XM... both 4 speeders..gadgetgricey wrote:Looks like it might be a replacement box then
- Dave -
Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
you will have to swap the bell housing which is easy but means opening the box up, the Saab Hp18 uses a different housing end oil cooler arrangement.
D
D
XM Prestige PRV6 92
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)
Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)
Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
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- Posts: 8061
- Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
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L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto
2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
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- CitroJim
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Ahh, that's reassuring because a 3 or 5 speed 4HP18 would be very rare indeed...citroenxm wrote:both 4 speeders..
The 4 in the model number indicates the number of forward gears it has...
Seriously, these many not fit the Saab even though the internals are the same. The bellhousings may well be different despite having the same model number... This applied to the 4HP20 as well...
Dean, do you know the origin of this whine when changing gear? On an HP20 I'd be very worried about a noise like that...
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Ive not looked into it Jim, lets face it, after nearly 9 years and 50k of isle of wight stop start abuse if it hasnt broken yet its not going to
It seems to be limited to first gear and when shifting between 1st and second but the oil is clean and the clutch plates have loads of life in them so its anybodys guess.
D
It seems to be limited to first gear and when shifting between 1st and second but the oil is clean and the clutch plates have loads of life in them so its anybodys guess.
D
XM Prestige PRV6 92
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)
Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)
Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
Great minds JimCitroJim wrote:Paul, Dean, sorry, I was replying at the same time as you both. My apologies.... To repeat your bellhousing comments was by no means intentional Dean...
D
XM Prestige PRV6 92
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)
Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)
Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
Yes, thats why good oil with some nice antifoam in it slences things a bit, the box is after all a bit of a dinosaur these days so we can forgive it a little whine
D
D
XM Prestige PRV6 92
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)
Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)
Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............