Any Auto box guru's on here (Non Citroen)

gadgetgricey · Unread post by **gadgetgricey** » 21 Sep 2011, 13:49

Wife's going to kill me as just bought another car, and may be buying another one soon

Our Garden is going to look like the Tesco Express Car Park soon.

Anyhoo the one I've just bought is an old Saab 9000 Auto. Bought it off a mate from another forum, and fully aware the gearbox had issues.

Two issues, one an inconvenience the second a problem.

1) When Changing up from 1st to 2nd the gearbox makes a whining noise almost like a siren, whilst the car chages gear. If driving slowly the noise only lasts a second. If giving it the beans, the noise last longer. Dont think auto's have clutches, but its almost like the clutch is squealing whilst it changes gear. As I say this only happens from 1st to second.

2) Now for the problem. When the car has warmed up, it wont change at all. To and from work for 25 mins, stop start traffic. Not a problem. Took it on the motorway for about 20 mins and when I got off at the junction it refused to change out of first. did manage to get it into 2nd by dropping the selector down to 1, and the moving into 2. even that took about 10 seconds though.

My mate thought it was going to be a gearbox swap, hence why he wanted rid. But the car drives fine until everything is warmed up, so wondered if it was something that could be repaired.

As I say know nothing regarding Auto box's, so just looking for advice, possible faults at this stage.

Thanks again

- Dave -

Gibbo2286 · Unread post by **Gibbo2286** » 21 Sep 2011, 14:55

Your gearbox doesn't have a conventional clutch it has a bundle of hydraulic clutches internally, I suspect your whirring noise is one of those burned out or possibly the torque converter (the bit that replaces the conventional clutch on the flywheel) on its last legs.

A check of the colour of the oil will tell you more, if it's red and clean most likely torque converter, if it's brown and smells burned it will be one of the internal clutches failing. they have paper thin linings designed to run in oil.

The cause of most auto box falures is the driver, one foot on the accelerator and one one the brake all the time.

Internal clutches are sealed with O rings and a common problem is one of these breaking losing the pressure and causing the clutch to spin and burn the lining off.

gadgetgricey · Unread post by **gadgetgricey** » 21 Sep 2011, 14:59

Looks like it might be a replacement box then

- Dave -

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 21 Sep 2011, 16:43

Gibbo2286 wrote: Internal clutches are sealed with O rings and a common problem is one of these breaking losing the pressure and causing the clutch to spin and burn the lining off.

And therein a vicious circle is set up, lining material is slouched off and this ends up in the filter which reduces flow and causes more clutch spin..

It also contaminates the torque converter and as these cannot be effectively cleaned, a new or refurbished one is the only answer.

Also check all the springs in the valve block - a broken one can cause this kind of behavior.

One thing is sure - the longer you run the car with the gearbox like this, the more damage that will occur. The 'box may be easily rebuildable at the moment but carry on and it may be damaged beyond repair.

Gibbo: interesting comment about most failures occurring because the driver 'rides' the brake. Can you elaborate on how you reach that conclusion?

SaabC5 · Unread post by **SaabC5** » 21 Sep 2011, 18:09

Google "Salvo Group Saab", they will be able to provide you with a serviceable auto box at a decent price. Avoid Neo Brothers like the plague.

Deanxm · Unread post by **Deanxm** » 21 Sep 2011, 19:08

your box will be the trusty 4HP18 and your problem sounds like a hydraulic pressure regulator with bore wear, it could also be regulator seals all of which can be done with the box in the car and for the price of a few seals and a mornings work.

The whining from 1st to 2nd is reasonably common, my XM has done it for the 10 years ive owned it, my Saab 9000 2.3t done it for the 2 years i had it and so have many other cars ive owned with the same box, i have driven a good few that dont too but a good oil change usualy reduces the whine greatly, if the clutch was slipping it would be destroyed very quickly and the box would be full of black muck and the oil would be burnt.

Make sure that the kickdown cable is correctly adjusted and the box is full of clean red D2 transmission fluid, also have a look over and replace the oil filter.

out of interest what mileage has she done? oh nice choice of car too

D

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 21 Sep 2011, 19:36

gadgetgricey wrote:Looks like it might be a replacement box then

- Dave -

Ive got a couple of 4hp18's - one off a PRV XM V6, the other off a TCT Turbo XM... both 4 speeders..

Paul

Deanxm · Unread post by **Deanxm** » 21 Sep 2011, 19:43

you will have to swap the bell housing which is easy but means opening the box up, the Saab Hp18 uses a different housing end oil cooler arrangement.

D

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 21 Sep 2011, 19:45

Ahhh Ill hang onto them for now.. I know they are PERFECTLY good box's..

Paul

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 21 Sep 2011, 19:47

citroenxm wrote:both 4 speeders..

Ahh, that's reassuring because a 3 or 5 speed 4HP18 would be very rare indeed...

The 4 in the model number indicates the number of forward gears it has...

Seriously, these many not fit the Saab even though the internals are the same. The bellhousings may well be different despite having the same model number... This applied to the 4HP20 as well...

Dean, do you know the origin of this whine when changing gear? On an HP20 I'd be very worried about a noise like that...

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 21 Sep 2011, 19:49

Paul, Dean, sorry, I was replying at the same time as you both. My apologies.... To repeat your bellhousing comments was by no means intentional Dean...

Deanxm · Unread post by **Deanxm** » 21 Sep 2011, 19:51

Ive not looked into it Jim, lets face it, after nearly 9 years and 50k of isle of wight stop start abuse if it hasnt broken yet its not going to

It seems to be limited to first gear and when shifting between 1st and second but the oil is clean and the clutch plates have loads of life in them so its anybodys guess.

D

Deanxm · Unread post by **Deanxm** » 21 Sep 2011, 19:52

CitroJim wrote:Paul, Dean, sorry, I was replying at the same time as you both. My apologies.... To repeat your bellhousing comments was by no means intentional Dean...

Great minds Jim

D

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 21 Sep 2011, 19:53

That's very true Dean, it's not at all serious then..

Most likely the sound of oil rushing around... A kind of cavitation...

Deanxm · Unread post by **Deanxm** » 21 Sep 2011, 19:54

Yes, thats why good oil with some nice antifoam in it slences things a bit, the box is after all a bit of a dinosaur these days so we can forgive it a little whine

D