clunk on starting and another clunk on changing gear

Post by **c.morewood** » 15 Sep 2011, 22:55

Another of those high mileage problems I fear.
Occasionally on starting just after the engine fires there's a loud deep clunk from what appears to be right in front of me. I can't reproduce it even if I stop and start the engine again. It only happens (5 times so far) in one particular place when starting, after I'm leaving work.
The other clunk, which may or may not be related, is on changing gear, particularly the lower gears when the car is cold. This clunk seems to dissapear or at least it isn't as loud after the car has warmed up.
It seems to emminate from the driver side wheel area and I'm wondering if that could be the signs of a CV joint giving up or maybe something more serious in the gearbox.
Whatever it is I'm doing the long trek down to Christchurch in 3 weeks She's going in for her 2nd cam and alternator belt in 2 weeks time and maybe I could get these clunks fixed then.
Thanks in advance for the replies.
Chris

Post by **Duracell** » 15 Sep 2011, 23:10

Have a look at the top engine mount tie bar - sounds similar to the symptoms I had when mine went - I couldn't see or induce any movement and only found the rubber bushes had broken up by removing it.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 16 Sep 2011, 08:05

i would look at you lower engine stabaliser bush, as these get soaked in oil and break up, this alows the engine to rock on take up and start stop's,

regards malcolm

Post by **DHallworth** » 16 Sep 2011, 09:53

Ours did this.

On the top mount there's a tie bar that goes to a mount with a rubber bush on it. It's held onto the suspension turret with 3 bolts.

I repalced all the engine mount rubbers on ours, then when speaking to Paul (citroenxm) he mentioned this mount.

It cost me £29 from the dealer, took 10 minutes to fit and made a massive difference.

David.

Post by **DHallworth** » 16 Sep 2011, 09:58

It's part number 1 in that picture.

Part number is 183946 and it currently retails at £28.18 including VAT from the dealer.

Ours made a clank when you started the engine and made the same clank when you changed gears. To visually inspect in situ ours looked absolutely fine, when removed from the car the rubber insert basically fell apart.

David.

Post by **c.morewood** » 16 Sep 2011, 11:51

Thanks for the replies guys.
So you think the clunks could be the same thing?
They certainly don't sound the same. The higher one when starting is very loud and makes me jump/cringe when it happens as it is so infrequent. Mounting bracket is probably correct Thanks for that.
The other feels like its lower down and not so loud, which makes me wonder about CV joints as I've never had one go before. But I suppose one mount failure could be progressing to another mount lower down.
David/Citronut, Did the noise start occasionally or was it a sudden onset whenever you started the car? What about when changing gear, was it a clunk clunk on accereration/deceleration?

Post by **DHallworth** » 16 Sep 2011, 17:28

On the HDi 110 it's a big fiddly but I moved the EGR valves out of the way.

The rubber bush comes as part of the mount so it's the entire thing you change. I used a flexi head ratchet ring spanner to get at it and it didn't take much more then 10 minutes!!

Not sure if there is one on the Activa or not to be honest!

David.

Post by **DHallworth** » 16 Sep 2011, 22:51

Nope, I didn't need to support the engine when I changed ours.

David.

addo · Post by **addo** » 17 Sep 2011, 00:09

If it's just the little rubber eye bush which has failed inside the bracket, you can buy replacement bushes by Sasic and others for less than a whole assembly.

Even PSA list just the bush for other models; there seem to be only a couple of variations so it's an easy one.

Post by **c.morewood** » 28 Sep 2011, 10:40

Thanks for all the replies. But I'm still not convinced that the engine mount is the only problem. I had the car up on jacks yesterday. In 1st gear there is about an inch or so play (rotating forwards and backwards) in the front wheels.. seems to be slightly more on the offside one. Is that normal? There is a definate clunk from the gearbox area when rotating the wheels. Is there a cush drive that could be failing? Or maybs the gearbox itsself? She's going in for a 2nd cambelt alt belt and waterpump on Friday so I'll get him to look at the clunk as well and see what he thinks.

Post by **RichardW** » 28 Sep 2011, 12:15

Your man will be able to inspect the engine mount torque link, as it has to come off to change the belt anyway (unless he's got forearms like Twiggy!).

Post by **CitroJim** » 28 Sep 2011, 12:17

Play like this in the gearbox is quite normal when rotating forwards and backwards; it's all the backlash in the various pinions...

My upcoming HDi has the same symptons as yours and I identified it positively as a broken 183946 rear torque reaction arm donut as identified by David Hallworth earlier...

This can be easily checket by getting hold of the top of the engine and ricking it by hand. If the donut is past its best you will the movement in it clearly...

This donut breaking is a common problem on 2.0TCT Activas...

Post by **Duracell** » 28 Sep 2011, 12:24

Our Xantia has about the same free play at the wheel and a metallic noise from the diff every 180 degrees as if somethings sliding about. I found this appox 80,000 miles ago when trying to find the source of a clunk on start up, stopping and when going between over run to drive - The clonk turned out to be the top tie bar bushes - Have you removed this yet to check them? - You will not see anything wrong with it without taking it out - The play and noise in the diff has not been an issue in any way for the last 80,000 miles so I suspect its normal

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 28 Sep 2011, 12:39

CitroJim wrote: My upcoming HDi has the same symptons as yours and I identified it positively as a broken 183946 rear torque reaction arm donut as identified by David Hallworth earlier...

This donut breaking is a common problem on 2.0TCT Activas...

Who was told by me...

As for the mount breaking its a combination of the HDi's 110bhp tourque and the actual position the rubber is mounted in the bracket, BUT it has to be mounted in the way it is for movement reasons!! I wount flax much if its the other way round..

Poeples who have changed this link will know what I mean.

Paul

Post by **Duracell** » 28 Sep 2011, 15:21

This can be easily checket by getting hold of the top of the engine and ricking it by hand. If the donut is past its best you will the movement in it clearly..

This from experience is not always the case - I could not identify any movement by rocking the engine by hand, which led me believe it was ok - I then wasted lots of time looking for the problem elsewhere.