>2007 <1.5ltr diesels. Whats the reliability like ??

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ebod
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>2007 <1.5ltr diesels. Whats the reliability like ??

Post by ebod »

Hi all, very long time since I posted on this forum.
I still have a slight French connection with my cars as I have a 2007 S-Max 2.0 TDCI140 which has a PSA DW engine under the hood.

I replaced my last French car in early 2009 with a 2004 Honda Accord 2.2I-CTDI. Whilst its been very reliable over the last 2 1/2 yrs, Its been a bit thirsty on fuel. It only does ~42mpg whereas my old Xsara110HDI used to do about 48mpg no matter how much I thrashed it around.
With fuel costs going up exponentially , I have to consider parting with my reliable luxury leather cruiser in favour of a smaller much more efficient car that gets me to ~55mpg.

Since I already have an S-Max as my big family car, my only requirements are that I have air-con and rear seating for three kids ( boot size not important nor whether its 3 or 5 door.
But the far bigger factor is that I want to combine 55+mpg with Honda grade reliability. I don't mind fixing cars, but with these modern spec diesels there are so many niggles with electrical and emissions control devices that what is saved in fuel costs gets consumed in repair costs.

So, looking at used/high mileage 2007+ diesel models on budget around £4 1/2k max, what are your opinions on these groups below :-

> Clio 1.5 dci
> 207 1.4 HDI
> Corsa 1.3 CDTI ( same engine as Punto )
> Punto 1.3 JTD
> Fiesta 1.4 TDCI ( late old shape model as probably can't afford new shape )
> VW / Seat small cars
> + any other offerings from Jap/Korean

I re-iterate...I don't mind fixing cars so long as I know whats broken. It would be nice to know things which are common faults on the above cars and whether the fixes are cheap/expensive.

Thx
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Post by Peter.N. »

The early Hdi 2.0 8 valve engines are proving very reliable the smaller later ones less so which I think is due to the increased power/size ratio and extended oil changes. The 8 valve engine only extends to about 04 in the 406 and the like but there are quite a number for sale with in excess of 300,000 miles of them - that's a good enough recomendation for me :D

I'm sure someone who has had experience of the later engines will be along shortly.

Peter
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Post by ebod »

Hi Peter, I'm sure the 8v / 16V is less of an issue, its probably because the older 8V models didn't have as much emissions control gadgets attached to them.

I've not got any worries about the raw engines...its the fuel / emissions / and turbo systems that my attention is drawn too...

I've not done much research on the pedigree od the small engines. I recall the VW 1.4 TDI is just the 1.9/2.0 less a cylinder. So maybe its the case for all the PSA / GM & Renault equivilents too...
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Post by Citroenmad »

Out of your list I would go for either the Clio or the 207. What about a C3? They are superb value now and the 1.4 8v (Don't buy a 1.4HDi 16v 90) are easily available and very hardy too.

The 207 is a heavy thing and so I can't imagine 70bhp will be enough, I would have to get a 1.6HDi 90 in those. The 70 is econimical in that and the road tax is cheap too.

The older Fiesta drives nicely, rides well too but I couldnt get over the noise in the one I had for a few weeks. It was a Zetec trimmed 1.4 petrol but the road roar was far too much for my liking. The interior is awfully tacky and cheap too.

The Clio is a very nice car, its very strong, very roomy for a small car and it gets praise for its refinement and ride quality too. They are easy to find and come in a range ot three powers in the 1.5DCI engine. All are cheap tax and the 1.5 does seem to have proven to be one of the most reliable Renault units of recent years (surely not hard!) I would also consider a Megane, available with the 1.5DCi and for a similar price too. It might be worth considering the older Clio (which was available as a Clio Campus way after the newer and bigger one arrived and are available on 2007> plates). They are much better value than the newer shape and still good cars.

The Grande Punto and Corsa are virtually the same car under the skin, I have heard very patchy reliability records about both and neither offer anything over better opposition, imo. Im not sure about the 1.3JTD, but the 1.9JTD has a few issues.

The 1.4TDI 3 pot is fantastic, Ive had two, one I ran for a few years with not a hint of a problem despite the miles I was doing. Its no refined like more modern small diesels, but its fun to drive and not bad on fuel. I say not bas as driven normally mine would do 55MPG, nothing like the 64 spec figure. It could however do far more on a run but I get 50 with my C5, which is much much bigger and quicker, I was a bit dissapointed with that. I have driven a remapped 1.4TDi Lupo and that really goes, the power delivery is sudden and makes it feel nippier than it is. However the Lupo is only a 4 seater, as is the Citroen C1/107 etc, which would otherwise fit your bill fantastically, JAP engined petrols which do 60MPG+ and £20 a year road tax.

As for Jap cars, the Yaris uses the 1.4HDI engine from the C3/206/207/Fiesta etc. So similar in engine reliability.

Mitsubishi Colts use a 1.5 diesel, not sure if thats a Renault unit or their own. Its the same car as a Smart ForFour ....

The 1.4HDI 8v would be where my money would go, they are well proven now and many can be found with big mileages to prove this.
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Post by Sl4yer »

Citroenmad wrote: What about a C3?
I wouldn't have another, and I don't expect Jap reliability! I know it's perhaps unfair to form an opinion on a single car, but I believe the electrics are too fragile. Ours has had a new ABS block and ECU recently (£800!), the driver's electric window no longer works, and I don't think the rad fan has worked since we've had it! It's quite pokey, but not great to drive (although the wife likes it). Unlike the Xantia, or the ZXs I've owned in the past, I couldn't recommend one.

I'd go down the VW/Seat route if budget permits. And don't get too hung up on the engine - these are generally reliable (although some Renaults still sound dodgy). It's the rest of the car which can end up costing you.

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Post by Citroenmad »

Ah, that isn't great news!

While I do still like C3s im glad we didnt get one, as the C1 suits our needs perfectly and has far more character, plus reliability and a warranty. One thing noticeable about the C3 is its flimsy interior.

VW/Seats are often more expensive and not always better than French/Jap cars. I have never had a major problem with a French car (touch wood!) but have had a few with VW group cars.

The Peugeot 207 recently won most reliabe car of the year or something or other. Can't be bad ...
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Post by ebod »

ok great so far...keep em coming :-)

I never considered Megane's or that size/class as I don't need that size ( already got an S-Max for family use ). I just need the three rears for the odd occasion when the S-Max is not available.

I did used to have a 2001 Lupo 1.0 Petrol and know that it was possible to buy a rear central lapbelt as an accessory. But I consider the Lupo/Arosa and even the C3 as a bit outdated now. I'd prefer something that was a fresh model after ~2005 and still currently in production.

What cars have the 1.4HDI 8v vs. the 16v and whats so bad about the 16v? is it the actual engine or stuff like particulate filter problems?

Interesting replies about Citroen fragile electrics...seems like not much progress made in the last few years.

Good news about the new shape Clios. I had a Laguna dTI 1999 model and did like it, but noticed parts were VERY expensive. My present Honda is like this...i.e. reliable but parts are dear.
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Post by Citroenmad »

The 1.5 Megane and the 1.4HDi 307 both have cheap tax (£30) and insurance, so your getting a bigger car but with the same running costs as a smaller one.

The Lupo could be ordered with a 3 seat rear bench yep but not so the Arosa, well not the MK2 anyway. Ive had 3 Mk2 Arosas, 1 1.0S and two 1.4TDis, all great but the TDis were pretty good. They sell like hot cakes too, very very desirable, I had bidding wars for both of mine!

The 1.4 HDi 16v 90bhp is used in some C3 SX and Exclusives, all Mini One-Ds and possibly something else which escapes me at the moment. Given the few models they are fitted too there are more than a few reports and posts on here about curing running problems with that 16v engine, so that puts me off. Most commony they seem to develop poor starting with large ammounts of smoke and poor running. I did read that the ECU misplaces the injectors and fires them wrongly .. not sure how true that is or what the actualy cause is or if it was ever figured out. Still something I would rather do without.

The 1.4HDi 8v can be found in a number of small cars. Peugeot 206, 207 and 307. Citroen C1, C2, C3 (current one included). Ford Fiesta. Toyota Aygo & Yaris.

It might be a struggle finding a current car on a newer than 07 plate for your budget, as small diesel superminis hold their value the best. Older generation cars but on 07> plates will always be cheaper but still as good (can be more reliable too).

If you do want a current gen car then that might just rule out VW/Seat group cars, as the 07 Polos and Ibizas all date back to 2002, albeit with slight facelifts. Good cars though and certainly something to consider for a good supermini. I had a new Ibiza in 2005 for 3 months and really enjoyed it, very firm ride though. I almost bought a 130 Sport Ibiza but have never driven anything with worse suspension.

I have a soft spot for Skoda Fabis VRS, a roomy little car with huge torque (remapped they are quite insane) but low(ish) running costs. Id have one, drive the tyres off it while knowing it will be reliable.

If you can do without a recent reg and current model then find a Audi A2 TDi, they are actually appreciating in value!

The Toyota Yaris seems good value and with the new one about to hit showrooms its bound to effect the current ones values. The 1.4 PSA HDi is available in this and as the Toyota is very small and light its going to be good on fuel.

Suzuki Swift could be another contender? 1.3 diesel (not sure who's that is mind) is available and they are not expensive.

If your looking at Clios then consider a Modus, excellent car in my opinion and a nice and refined drive too. Good value.

Some small petrols are very efficient now, what with petrol being cheaper at the pumps it can make sense in the right car and engine. Something like a 1.1 Smart ForFour does 50MPG or a 1.2 Corsa is similar.
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Post by ebod »

The 2007+ thing is essentially based on what high mileage ex-lease vehicles which might turn up at the auctions.

I've noticed the Clio is ~1175kg whereas the 207 is around 1250. Also noticed a lot of variance on insurance group ratings.

I've also got to think a few years down the line when my daughter reaches 17. Another factor would be insurance groups.

Lots to think about...hmmmm :wink:
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Post by lexi »

Surely your logical choice is Honda Jazz? Petrol ones will do the mpg........especially the newer 1.2.
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Post by Andy F »

A friend of mine has the 1.5 dci 70 in a renault kangoo van. Its easy to service, good on diesel, proving very reliable and quick too
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Post by Xsarahdi »

I've also got to think a few years down the line when my daughter reaches 17. Another factor would be insurance groups.
Although this may sound mad but I wouldn't judge insurance prices too much on the insurance groups.
For example I have only started driving a few months ago and I was originally going to have my parents ZX but insurance was just horrific. You are now probably thinking this is due to it being a larger car for a 1st car with a 1.9d engine. This prompted me to look for other cars so I was looking around for the usual small diesels (as that is what I wanted).

Basically I got many insurance quotes on lots of cars and in the end I got my Peugeot 306 1.9TD Meridian. This ended up being one of the cheaper options (306 is insurance group 11 and was cheaper than group 5's or less) and around £800 cheaper than insuring my parents Zx which was unbelievable. The Zx was older, less valuable, didn't have the equipment of the 306 such as aircon, half leather, rain sensors etc and the Zx was much slower than the 306 with it not being the turbo model.

All i'm saying is don't entirely judge it on the grouping, get quotes first.

Mark
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