More bent valve woes or not maybe !!

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 18 Aug 2011, 12:41

Right got a dispatch van as a non runner.
The events as told by the owner, the van had a new water pump fitted,on the way home it was smoking black I think !,they thought cambelt failure ??.
That is all the info I had and I am not worried if the engine is totally dead.
But just before I got the van I spoke to the owner and he said it wont even turn over on the key now ??.
Right to the nitty gritty the cambelt plastics were in the back of the van,its obvious the waterpump belt and tensioners have all been changed.
The belt wasn'nt even straight on the crank and pulleys so has'nt been turned over completely since the change to allow the tensioner to do its job.
I tried turning it over with the cranknut but it will only go about 3/4 of a turn in either direction then comes to a very clunky stop.
I took the belt off timed it all correctly camshaft pin, long allen key behind starter motor and fuel pump pins.
I then put the belt back on took all pins and allen key out,it still only turns 3/4 of a turn in either direction.
Must be a bent valve so I tried a srewdriver under the cam to see if any were stuck down.
All move freely with good tension on the springs,

.
If there is a bent valve or 2 would'nt the buckets be stuck down ?.
Although the camshaft is not broken it is a lttle sticky to turn and does revolve all the way round.
Any ideas before I junk the engine and get another one.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 18 Aug 2011, 13:20

whipp the head off,

regards malcolm

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 18 Aug 2011, 13:28

Thanks for that citonut.
because i dont know the history of the engine it would be cheaper to get another engine about £150.
I may once another engine fitted do a strip and rebuild subject to money available.
But was wondering if there is anything else to check first.

Chlorate · Post by **Chlorate** » 18 Aug 2011, 13:43

Interesting one, I heard XUD valve strikes almost always kill the camshaft. Since the valves are perpendicular to the piston and have meaty stems on them etc.

I'd be tempted to pop the camshaft off first before doing anything, if all of your valves are ok, the tappets should rest at the same level (give or take a thou or two).

Cylinder head jobs on these engines are a massive faff and head gasket kits with new bolts are a bit on the pricey side.

I'm not sure...but I seem to recall that there may be other holes in the flywheel that aren't for timing - the timing peg hole is the only one that a 6mm rod will fit into.

Alex

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 18 Aug 2011, 13:51

Thanks Alex, I thought it was an 8mm hole anyway my allen key is a 6mm.
With the 3/4 turn I have it only goes in on 1 hole.
Looked into the headbolt sets and they do seem pricey, and lots of unscupuluss EBAY sellers doing the head gasket SETS but without the head gasket go figure.They even show a photo of the gasket in the kit but then say the head gasket does not come with the kit!!!.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 18 Aug 2011, 13:59

Heres one of them seems to be one of the more expensive as well.
Leading some to believe it is a full set

.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-PEUGE ... 588a3b29a1

I know before you all say its not for my engine.

Gibbo2286 · Post by **Gibbo2286** » 18 Aug 2011, 14:42

You say the valves can be pressed down and return ok but do you have clearance at the tappets, I've had one of these that the valve head broke off and sat on the top of the piston, if that's the case here the clearance will have gone.

One other possibility is a combustion chamber full of liquid, water or diesel, neither will compress.

Another is a broken con rod but you would normally have a hole in the side of the crankcase if that happened.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 18 Aug 2011, 14:51

Broken valve now that is possible as its a very positive stop when being turned over by hand, no holes in the side of engine and no unusual sounds when it is turned over,and unlikely to be fluid in the chamber as when it stops turning it is a metalic clonk with no spongyness to the bar when turning.
looks like another engine then, as I cant see it being much cheaper to repair than to replace.

Gibbo2286 · Post by **Gibbo2286** » 18 Aug 2011, 18:16

It's still possible that you've cocked up on the belt timing though and that would be my first thing to double check.

You've got the cam cover off, take the belt off and turn the camshaft round until the cams on the number 1 or number 4 cylinder are 'on the rock' i.e. the exhaust is just closing and the inlet just opening, that way none of the valves will be in the way of the pistons coming to tdc so the crankshaft should do a complete turn without any clunks, if it does it's just a matter of getting the locking pins in the correct holes and fitting the belt properly, if it still comes to a clunk then you certainly have some damage.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 18 Aug 2011, 19:02

The timing is'nt an issue.This I know is set correctly and has been double checked carefully.
Interesting point on the exhaust closing inlet opening did'nt realise this could be done but will be giving it ago on friday as long as the weather decides to be nicer.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 18 Aug 2011, 19:34

i think you have bent valves,

all the heads i have had off for cam belt faliure only one or to have had smashed cam and caps,

the corect position to locate the flywheel pin/peg is with both No. 1 and 4 piston at the top of there stroke,

i always use 3/16th kunifer for peging the flywheel,

regards malcolm

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 18 Aug 2011, 19:38

Malcolm even with all the buckets moving as they should,I have checked each one and all move freely with the aid of a hefty screwdriver of coarse.

reblack68 · Post by **reblack68** » 18 Aug 2011, 21:16

Checking the valve clearances gives a good clue about the state of the valves. A bent valve won't close fully and consequently the clearance will be much wider than the others and, as said already, a valve that's lost its head will have no clearance at all.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 18 Aug 2011, 21:34

I will check for clearance friday weather permmiting.
I will bet on a broken valve, still its no loss as we have parts to repair it with.
Check out my dispatch fuel pump update