AC is fixed! YEY, but cars turned into a boiling kettle

trooper30 · Post by **trooper30** » 03 Aug 2011, 18:22

OMG ITS WORKING!

But at what cost!

As a stab in the dark I thought I would leave the Xant ticking over outside and let it heat up in order to make sure the fan was working, see if that would have any effect on owt. After about 20 mins I looked out and was horrified to see coolant running out and after a closser look coolant was being forced out of the lid of the headertank!

Made sure the lid was on properly but it was still squirting out and neither fan were running (fans move freely as I checked them see it they were stuck) the temp was upto about 110 which I was shocked at as in 2 years I have never seen it pas 90!
As the fans wernt running i thought to take it for a drive get some air through it cool it down, which worked and as I drove the temp droped.

But amazingly when the car was hot and moving the aircon kicked in and was blowing ice cold although the engine was boiling:-k

When i got back to the house the AC stoped working when it was stood still, so I took it round the block again, and sure enought the AC was ice, temp droped with airflow, but again when I stoped outside the house the AC warmed up and the engine temp rocketed, When I turned to engine off you could hear the water in the bottle boiling like a kettle even fell the vibration of boiling water throught the wing!

So the AC workingish, but the cars statred to boil up!

I am just lost on what could be the problem, unless im overcomplicating it and its just the fact the the cooling fan aint cutting in. Any way of checking th fan connetions or the like?
And has anyone had or heard of a similar problem?

CHeers fellas

Dommo · Post by **Dommo** » 03 Aug 2011, 18:26

The AC needs the rad fans to be on to cool the AC radiator at the front of the car, otherwise it simply won't cool the car down inside, so that's why the AC goes cold when you drive around and doesn't work when you're stationary. The problem with your fans however I'm not sure how to go about sorting!

trooper30 · Post by **trooper30** » 03 Aug 2011, 18:46

Right I have a anouther idea, coould all this be caused through and airlock in the coolent system?
Last Saturday I changed the coolant, I opened the plug on the bottom of the rad and let it drain whilst putting a garden hose into the header tank to flush it through. Is it possible that the fans arnt working because i didnt bleed it correctly? I guess it there was an airlock that would have an effect on the AC as the fans not spinning.
So do any of you HDI owners know if theres a correct way of bleeding the system of air which I clearly aint done?
Cheers fellas

fridgedoc · Post by **fridgedoc** » 03 Aug 2011, 19:09

Trooper how many different posts about the same problem are you going to make ............................

I've just spend 30 minutes going through what to check and making sure I got it right so you would not make any mistakes ......Dohhhhh

fridgedoc · Post by **fridgedoc** » 03 Aug 2011, 19:12

The fans come on if the temp goes up, unless you have got very little water in the system

trooper30 · Post by **trooper30** » 03 Aug 2011, 19:23

Sorry fridge! Didnt meant to make things complicated m8, its a reflection of my mechanical skills, confused!

Well I let the car cool down, replaced any lost coolant, and after reading a few more threads realised there a bleed valve on the thermostat casing. So i bled it all again and its all good. But can deffo say that the fans arnt working a all. The AC works fine and icey when on the move with the airflow in the rad, but warms up soon as you came to a stop so I recon its deffo the fan causing the issues. No idea why it aint working, guess I will have to read a few more threads on the fan issue. Once i get that sorted I recon it will all be good.

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 03 Aug 2011, 19:50

trooper30 I tried to read your recent air con threads

may be I have missed this but anyway I'll ask,
Do you have the rad fan motors only in high speed but not the slow speed?

When you switch on air condition, both radiator fan motors should start in slow speed even if the engine is cold.

Edit: Your case might be worn brushes in one of the fan motors.
Slow speed / High Speed --> current flows in Series / Parallel

trooper30 · Post by **trooper30** » 03 Aug 2011, 20:56

Good point Vert, and as it happens I have just had the fan cover off to take a look at at it (would love to fight with it more but its getting a little dark now) I know I had 1 lazy fan, the passenger side one, but now neither of them are booting up. If I turn the AC on they dont move unless I give them a flick with a scewdriver then they start working on a slow speed, then maybe get faster, then stop. Neither of them cut in when the car gets to hot.
So i tried AC on, flick fan with screwdriver, get them going up to speed, the AC off, fans stop, and repeated this about 10 times hoping to free somthing up. For a while the fans started to go under there own steam, YEY. But after a few more goes they refused to do anything at all. During this tim ethe temp reached just over 110 but still they didnt kick in even with a flick to try and start them.
So i recon 100% the issues are all to do with the fans not cutting in, which in this weather aint good.

So be prepared for lots of stupid and confusing questions about how to get the fans working tomorrow

May even see if I can find the power to them and give them a direct power feed for the short term, guess thats somwhere behind the 3 relays I found between th 2 fans.

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 03 Aug 2011, 21:18

I can't say 100% sure but it seems that you have the fan motor brushes case

trooper30 wrote:... If I turn the AC on they dont move unless I give them a flick with a scewdriver then they start working on a slow speed, ...

This symptom points to the worn brushes as in the last pic in my link below.

Just have a quick look at my thread here in Handy Hints & Tips --> Xantia II - Radiator fan motor removal
So you'll be prepared what's ahead in very near future because head gasket change is not a nice experience.
S1 and S2 are same/similar.

There's also another member (an air con guru

) Clogzz who has sent lots of useful messages and
pics on this subject. Try to find/read the threads by him.

Just let the questions come

PS: Yes, from 3 relays direct powers to fan motor is possible. There is also a pic in a thread about this.
The one in the middle is switch over.

trooper30 · Post by **trooper30** » 04 Aug 2011, 09:40

Just read up on tha link and Clogzz threads, Wow so much useful info. The wife is off work today do am gonna try to sort it following the info. Will keep ya posted.
Cheers for pointing me in the right direction Vert

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 04 Aug 2011, 10:09

Just like to point out, the HDi Head removal in situ is a REAL PITA!!!

Its not easy with the turbo attached.. and removing the turbo is ALSO a pita as one of the manifold studs is in a right awfull awkward almost inacessable place...

I had to remove a head With the turbo attached... and put it back with the turbo attached which is not easy! Nothing like being able to drop the Turbo off an XUD...

Of course, proceudre is very similar..overall.

Paul

trooper30 · Post by **trooper30** » 04 Aug 2011, 12:39

Righ its stoped raining at last! After following a few threads and before striping the fan of I put a miultmeter on pin 1 of the top right hand fuse and there was power there, cleaned the relay and poped it back in.
Turned AC on and the relay clicked and the passenger side fan spun up, AC off relay clicked and fan stoped. This worked perfectly for 6 attempts so im thinking i may be close to sorting it. But then a cup of tea and 20 mins later it aint working so I checked pin 1 again and no reading on the multimeter.
Muct be a connection or a fuse or the like as power was there, then it wasnt

Am also trying to find the Bitron relay, saw this pic but in the area indicated theres nothign there at all, just an empty space, so anyone any idea where it is?
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5183/bitron1qn.jpg

trooper30 · Post by **trooper30** » 04 Aug 2011, 15:41

Hold that, found the birton, was next to the ecu inside it casing, give the connections a good clean but still nowt.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 04 Aug 2011, 16:21

Unless your car has been modified the Bitron next to the ECU has nothing to do with the A/C or fans. The location under the N/S front bumper is so inaccessable as in right under the top of the bumper you really need to remove the bumper to see it let alone get to it. It could have been moved but unlikley I'd have thought as the loom doesn't have much slack to the Bitron unit

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 04 Aug 2011, 16:23

trooper30 wrote:Hold that, found the birton, was next to the ecu inside it casing, give the connections a good clean but still nowt.

Hi trooper, I think you have found the double relay (related to fuel supply, injection and etc).

Although I don't think it's a Bitron problem, I would describe the location and later add some pics also.
It's found under the left side head light. You can reach it after removing the head light ( 3 torx screws, T40) and
trim mustache under the headlight.