Off road / retail park etc driving tuition laws???

HDI Dave · Unread post by **HDI Dave** » 30 Jul 2011, 12:53

Afternoon all

My young un, (15 year old lad), seems to have my petrol head bug gene

Anyway, I've finally said I'll take him out in the Xant....eek! Haha, for once I'm glad it has the handbrake on the front stoppers

Anyone know the laws on off road / retail park etc driving tuition? re police etc?

As he's obviously underage,no licence/insurance etc..

I taught my daughter in the local retail park, but she was 17 with her provisional.

Or is it a none starter?

Cheers, Dave.

Dieselman · Unread post by **Dieselman** » 30 Jul 2011, 13:12

Anywhere that the general public has access to is classed as a normal road, so licence and insurance rules apply.

A private driveway or airfield is off road, so no requirement.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 30 Jul 2011, 13:14

Large car parks and the like where members of the public may freely drive in/around/out, are probably gazetted as something along the lines of "road related areas" - this means that rules of the road are enforceable.

Private property (say, like a farm) where you have the owner's consent to drive, is another matter altogether. Your car insurance won't be valid but the only other issue is probably duty of care as a parent or guardian.

Can't get the lad into karting?

HDI Dave · Unread post by **HDI Dave** » 30 Jul 2011, 13:34

hmm,

ok, cheers guys.

headscratch headscratch

Addo, I think he's past karting, and his young cousins are all just about driving...crashing etc

so he's after driving a car really. (he's even got his eye on my mo sickle!...but for his mums sake and less earache for me I'll be chuffed if I can teach him the driving basics/maintenance etc.)

Rethink needed

Cheers, Dave.

HDI · Unread post by **HDI** » 30 Jul 2011, 14:23

Why schools in the UK don't have drivers ed on the curriculum has always puzzled me

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 30 Jul 2011, 14:36

Dieselman wrote:airfield is off road, so no requirement.

Gatwick/Heathrow runway 1

regards malcolm

HDI Dave · Unread post by **HDI Dave** » 30 Jul 2011, 15:12

HDI wrote:Why schools in the UK don't have drivers ed on the curriculum has always puzzled me

Good point there HDI

I know from my own younger days that anything with a motor is in most young lads veigns,well before 17

So if it were taught,say, in school,after hours, it might just:

a./ promote a more confident/informed young driver,upon reaching 17.

b./ curb a bit of the joyriding/thieving fratternity,as they'd get their 'motoring fix' (cars and bikes would be good).

b. part b lol./ In my day we had areas away from houses / people - quarries etc, to thrash around on our bikes,4x4's etc.
Then,after years,they closed it down..said it was an eyesore to a motorway.. it was a flyover, a mile away..with people doing..motorway speeds..eyesore?!!

So I can see both sides, there's young kids ragging motors around illegally..but there's nowhere else for them to go, and learn responsibly

So yeah,I agree, school driver education would be quite a healthy option methinks

Ross_K · Unread post by **Ross_K** » 30 Jul 2011, 22:26

HDI Dave wrote:Anyone know the laws on off road / retail park etc driving tuition? re police etc?

http://www.rjerrard.co.uk/law/cases/clarke1.htm

The Decision

Save in exceptional circumstances, a car park would not qualify as a "road" for the purposes of section 145(3)(a) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 so as to be an area in respect of which a motor insurance policy had to provide cover.

The House of Lords so held in allowing appeals by;

1 General Accident Fire and Life Assurance Corporation plc against the order of the Court of Appeal, The Times December 11, 1996; [1997] 1 WLR 208) and

2 Eagle Star from the order of the Court of Appeal, The Times December 3, 1996; [1997] 1 WLR 1082).

Fine and dandy you say... But on the flip side, my wife was hit in a Tesco car park by an underage learner driver and her dad two years ago. Police weren't interested - they said that because it happened on private property the Road Traffic Act didn't apply.

I've got solicitors on the case still, but the dad claims poverty - lost his job, four kids, etc etc. F***ing t**t - thats my opinion of anyone who lets an uninsured driver out in public in a car park or on the road.

HDI Dave · Unread post by **HDI Dave** » 30 Jul 2011, 23:56

Fair enough Ross mate, I see your point TOTALLY in your case: (

That is why I asked on here,a motoring forum, as I've heard " yeah car parks are fine" ..."no, no they're not", "eh,but some are.." etc

even the police don't seem to know!

I'm not backpedaling or owt, I was just after a more knowledgable answer than the ones I've been given

Of course now I won't be taking my lad onto said 'grey areas'.

We're next door to the green belt here, so an old disused motorcross track/farmland (I used to frequent) could be an option, if the farmer puts his shotgun away and stops shouting 'get off moi laaaand'

And I very much see why you are vexed, I would be too. If I was teaching a young un, they'd be nowhere near anyone or anything they could bump into..unlike the 'responsible' adult in your unfortunate case. Sounds like a complete ar$e to be honest

..you have my sympathys
Dave.

red_dwarfers · Unread post by **red_dwarfers** » 31 Jul 2011, 00:09

Down here in Exeter we have the 'Devon Drivers Centre' which runs loads of courses on their skid pan and off-road road complex (with traffic lights, roundabouts and all!). One of the courses they run is a Pre-License one which IIRC allows 16yr olds to give it a go.

I wonder if there is something similar up your end of the country?

HDI Dave · Unread post by **HDI Dave** » 31 Jul 2011, 00:22

No idea Kev,

sounds good though, might do a bit of research if there's owt round here.

cheers, Dave

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 31 Jul 2011, 00:29

red_dwarfers wrote:Down here in Exeter we have the 'Devon Drivers Centre' which runs loads of courses on their skid pan and off-road road complex (with traffic lights, roundabouts and all!). One of the courses they run is a Pre-License one which IIRC allows 16yr olds to give it a go.

I wonder if there is something similar up your end of the country?

There used to be a similar centre in Harrow many years ago, now closed due to lack of use.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 31 Jul 2011, 10:03

i used to teach my daughter to start with in empty factory car parks on a sunday,

even though she had a provisional licence and was insured,

i had here doing figiure of 8 in reverse, amongst other maneuvers

these were quit large car parks,

then we progrest to the industrial estate roads, but still used the car parks as well,

regards malcolm

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 31 Jul 2011, 10:21

citronut wrote:...i had here doing figiure of 8 in reverse, amongst other maneuvers

With a single axle trailer?

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Off road / retail park etc driving tuition laws???

Off road / retail park etc driving tuition laws???

Re: Off road / retail park etc driving tuition laws???