Xantia long start [Solved]

VertVega · Unread post by **VertVega** » 14 Jul 2011, 15:41

It takes longer than normal to start my Xantia.

A quick search in FCF and found some helpful tips.
I checked battery condition by reading with a voltmeter while idling and engine off.
Both readings are good, battery is new, green indicator light is seen etc.

Today I drove to a car battery dealer and they tested battery with a tester.
Good readings and good load response to load.

I wanted them to see how long it takes to start.
I have started 2 times and started perfectly without hesitation

This is becoming more confusing.

Is this a starter problem? What are the symptoms of a bad starter?
Idle stepper motor?
Spark plugs? (They are not so old)
something else?

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Edit: Solved by Fuel Pressure Regulator change

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Clogzz · Unread post by **Clogzz** » 14 Jul 2011, 16:20

Faulty starters cause slow cranking speeds, not long cranking times.
Current plugs are good for 50,000 km with electronic ignition.

The fuel pressure is escaping when the car is parked.
At ignition, before starting, let the stepper motor spin and go ‘clonk’ twice, for both ways.
Let the fuel pump buzz while pressurising, and only start after the buzz has got quieter.

VertVega · Unread post by **VertVega** » 14 Jul 2011, 16:38

Clogzz, both starter and fuel pump in the tank are factory assembly and now over 200k miles

Could it be a lazy fuel pressure regulator?

Here is video taken just for the sound. (No mp3 file options in PhotoBucket

)

Click on the pic below to "listen",

HDI · Unread post by **HDI** » 14 Jul 2011, 16:55

I would go with low fuel pressure at start up. Filter ? Reg ?
Really a fuel pressure test needs to be carried out.

VertVega · Unread post by **VertVega** » 14 Jul 2011, 17:27

Just been out for a short test drive. Long start again ...

I was thinking what Clogzz has written,

Clogzz wrote:... The fuel pressure is escaping when the car is parked. ...

That would then explain why it started perfectly during battery test.
The fuel pressure didn't drop and started as it should normally during
both consecutive starts.

HDI wrote:I would go with low fuel pressure at start up. Filter ? Reg ?
Really a fuel pressure test needs to be carried out.

Fuel filter is not too old, I'll change it. It might be regulator.

What about fuel pump in the tank, if it's malfunctioning I should notice it while driving I guess (?)

Thanks for the replies.
All ideas and suggestions are welcome.

VertVega · Unread post by **VertVega** » 14 Jul 2011, 20:42

Now concentrated on Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR), made a new search in FCF
and found this useful thread started by sjj698 ---> Xantia 16v getting 12mpg!!! [Fixed]

Nearby scrapyard has a 1.8i 16V engine.
Is a FPR from 1.8i 16V compatible with 2.0i 16V?

Unread post by **RichardW** » 15 Jul 2011, 07:23

VertVega wrote:
Nearby scrapyard has a 1.8i 16V engine.
Is a FPR from 1.8i 16V compatible with 2.0i 16V?

Possibly...there appear to be two types, depending on whether Bosch or Mangeti Marelli injeciton is fitted. The same reg looks to be used for all engines with the same injection system - so if the 1.8 has the same injection system, the FPR should fit! Same regs are also used in MK 1 and MK2 cars - not sure which yours is?

They're not desperately expensive (£70 or £77) in the UK if you have to go the the dealer.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 15 Jul 2011, 09:39

I would suggest first looking at the coil dwell times with Lexia. A slow start may well be electrical in cause. Increased fuel consumption is also a symptom of this problem (basically, a weak spark).

With fuel pressure/supply, test 1 is to plug the vacuum reference line with a bolt or screw into its tubing (disconnect to plug at regulator end), then hook the fuel pressure gauge in between fuel line and regulator. You should see about 3.0 Bar within seconds of the key being turned on, and it should stay pressurised for a couple of hours afterwards.

Test 2 is to direct the fuel supply with key on, engine off, into a five litre can. Keep the vacuum reference off for this test, and measure the volume delivered in one minute. If the pump is healthy it will deliver a lot of fuel!

If your FPR is at fault, I have one free (160K km). I replaced it when my fault was electrical (battery lead terminations) and the difference was negligible if anything.

VertVega · Unread post by **VertVega** » 15 Jul 2011, 22:34

for your all your help.

RichardW wrote:... - so if the 1.8 has the same injection system, the FPR should fit! Same regs are also used in MK 1 and MK2 cars - not sure which yours is?

They're not desperately expensive (£70 or £77) in the UK if you have to go the the dealer.

1.8 16V had the same injection system as mine and Bosch FPR with same product code numbers on it
The dealer prices are very expensive. Half of the price is because it has a Bosch brand name.

addo wrote:...If your FPR is at fault, I have one free (160K km). I replaced it when my fault was electrical (battery lead terminations) and the difference was negligible if anything.

Fortunately it seems to be only a FPR issue this time. Thanks for the detailed information.
I have read it carefully and who knows I might need it next time. It is great to have professionals helping
here in FCF. There is a huge amount of information stored.

Donating car was a Xantia 1.8i 16V ´99 Automatic and FPR was still on top the engine.
I got the chance to "train" how to remove it.
It was easy but I was cautious not to brake it.
- Removed the retaining clip.
- Disconnected the tiny hose.
- Pulled out FPR (first gently lifting it up with the help of a screw driver).

On mine, I waited for the engine to cool down and I disconnected the battery terminal before starting the job.

Here are some pics and hope that they would help others (FCF members and guests).

FPR from scrap car (Dusts wiped and on the roof of my Xantia):

FPR removed:

Job done: