Total Hydraurincage

lancia58 · Post by **lancia58** » 08 Jul 2011, 09:14

Hi

Is the “Total Hydraurincage” that is used to flash the Hydraulic system efficient ? Is it necessary to flush the system ? Is there another way to flush it ?

Thanks
Zohar

Xantidote · Post by **Xantidote** » 08 Jul 2011, 10:23

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "efficient". If you mean"does it work", then I guess the answer is Yes, and it certainly won't do any harm. I presume it has detergent properties to help dislodge impurities in the hydraulic system. Somewhere I've read that it doesn't have the full lubricating properties of LHM, but it's only being used for a short term flush.

Partly ignorance, partly idleness, I only changed the LHM on my Xantia for the first time at 150k, flushing the system and at the same time cleaning out the reservoir and filters. Some photos on the Forum show very dirty filters compared to mine.

If you kept losing LHM from the system (say, when working on the brake calipers), and replenishing with new LHM, then you might wonder if regular flushing was necessary, but I don't begrudge the occasional flush. In part, I'd be influenced by how dirty the LHM is, when bleeding the brake calipers, as this fluid is never circulated back round the system (the brake lines are dead ends).

We change engine oil, and transmission oil, on a regular basis, which removes those impurities held in the oil, so why not with the hydraulic system as well?

I'm sure someone could come up with another way to flush the system, but "Total Hydraurincage" is the approved oil, so why opt for a none-approved method?

Sorry for the ramble - hope it helps!

Old-Guy · Post by **Old-Guy** » 08 Jul 2011, 16:16

Xantidote wrote:...Partly ignorance, partly idleness, I only changed the LHM on my Xantia for the first time at 150k, flushing the system and at the same time cleaning out the reservoir and filters. Some photos on the Forum show very dirty filters compared to mine.

Likewise, but at about 7,000 miles and 12 years-old when I changed the spheres. I'd only had the car for a few months and got a bit enthusiastic, cleaning the reservoir before bleeding the brakes. As what came out of the calipers first (straw-colour and dirty) was pretty horrible and I had a new 5L can of LHM, I kept on bleeding (with the suspension on low) until I got nice clean new fluid out of each caliper (O/S/R, N/S/R, O/S/F, N/S/F) then raised the suspension to high, topped up and did a session of citarobics.

IMHO, Hydraurincage is really only necessary when there's evidence that hydraulic valves are sticking and a flush may save removing and stripping down valves. Otherwise you've got to flush the system twice once to get rid of the old LHM, then again to get out the Hydraurincage.

My understanding is that Hydraurincage lacks the temperature-stability and anti-corrosion properties of LHM, but contains solvent/detergents to remove gum left by ancient LHM. We tend to forget that the calipers (the front ones in particular) get very hot as does the LHM in them. Over time this LHM breaks down but fortunately stays in the brake lines (until we force the pistons back when changing the pads.

So perhaps bleeding the brakes before changing pads is a good strategy?

rmunns · Post by **rmunns** » 08 Jul 2011, 16:45

I'm only just getting round to draining the Total Hydraurincage fluid and replacing with LHM. The Hydraur.... has been in for 5000miles. More than it ought to, I know.

I haven't bled through the brakes. Maybe I'll do that as I put in the new LHM.

Philjw · Post by **Philjw** » 08 Jul 2011, 21:01

Now that C5s have LDM, will hydraurincage be compatible or necessary?

lancia58 · Post by **lancia58** » 09 Jul 2011, 16:07

I am curious to know how dirty ( if at all ) the Total Hydraurincage you are going to drain will be ? And how will it affect the riding comfort ( if it will ) ? Is the hydraulic flushing part of routine service or just a recommendation from Citroen ?

Thanks
Zoahr

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 09 Jul 2011, 16:31

Part of routine servicing.
LHM should be replaced at 36K, Hydroflush used at 72K
However, most vehicles I've seen have never had their LHM changed (before forum member ownership), having brown or red LHM in their resevoirs that is well past it's use by date!

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 09 Jul 2011, 16:57

Xac wrote:Part of routine servicing.
LHM should be replaced at 36K, Hydroflush used at 72K

Where did you get that info from? The handbook states 80k miles or 5 years for LHM and mentions nothing about Hydroflush

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 09 Jul 2011, 17:11

DickieG wrote:
Xac wrote:Part of routine servicing.
LHM should be replaced at 36K, Hydroflush used at 72K
Where did you get that info from? The handbook states 80k miles or 5 years for LHM and mentions nothing about Hydroflush

I believe it's in the haynes manual

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 09 Jul 2011, 17:26

Xac wrote:
DickieG wrote:
Xac wrote:Part of routine servicing.
LHM should be replaced at 36K, Hydroflush used at 72K
Where did you get that info from? The handbook states 80k miles or 5 years for LHM and mentions nothing about Hydroflush
I believe it's in the haynes manual

Oh, the BOL.

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 09 Jul 2011, 17:57

DickieG wrote:
Xac wrote:Part of routine servicing.
LHM should be replaced at 36K, Hydroflush used at 72K
Where did you get that info from? The handbook states 80k miles or 5 years for LHM and mentions nothing about Hydroflush

DickieG, I also agree with Xac, LHM change every 60k km which would be 36k miles.
72 k miles Hydroflush is recommended. I think in mine, first Hydroflush was after 3 x 36k

If you do LHM replacements regularly the system stays in quite good condition.

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 09 Jul 2011, 18:09

lancia58 wrote:I am curious to know how dirty ( if at all ) the Total Hydraurincage you are going to drain will be ? And how will it affect the riding comfort ( if it will ) ? Is the hydraulic flushing part of routine service or just a recommendation from Citroën ?

Thanks
Zoahr

*) When I have drained the Total Hydraurincage, I haven't seen any visible dirt/sludge etc. Color got a bit darker of course.

*) It didn't have a big difference in riding comfort. I was surprised actually how well it behaved under sub zero degrees.
We had a period when the temperature dropped below -15 degrees unexpectedly.
It lasted more than a week and suspension worked well

*) As far as I know it is a recommendation.

Check this pdf about HYDRAURINCAGE
---> http://www.lubadmin.com/upload/produit/ ... 1/4469.pdf

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 09 Jul 2011, 18:40

VertVega wrote:
DickieG wrote:
Xac wrote:Part of routine servicing.
LHM should be replaced at 36K, Hydroflush used at 72K
Where did you get that info from? The handbook states 80k miles or 5 years for LHM and mentions nothing about Hydroflush
DickieG, I also agree with Xac, LHM change every 60k km which would be 36k miles.
72 k miles Hydroflush is recommended. I think in mine, first Hydroflush was after 3 x 36k
If you do LHM replacements regularly the system stays in quite good condition.

I know all about LHM changes, been there done loads including Hydraflush many times (never made the slightest difference) and have a very large store of LHM in my shed ATM.

I'm curious to know on what factual basis the 36k miles is based upon when Citroen state 80k or 5 years which is quite a difference. Nowhere that I can find including the genuine Citroen Xantia workshop manuals for the hydraulic systems make any mention of LHM @ 36K or Hydraflush @ 72k.

Yes obviously you change it sooner but then just like when Millers Oil offered oil quality checks where they sampled oil removed from engines by home servicing mechanics the condition/properties of the oil submitted for test were such that the vast majority of oil changes were being done far too early, thereby simply achieving nothing other than wasting money.

I'm simply wondering where these recommendations come from based upon fact and not personal preferences.

Xantidote · Post by **Xantidote** » 09 Jul 2011, 19:37

FWIW, my Citroen Handbook (came with my S1) states that LHM be replaced at 36k/6 year intervals. However, haven't found any reference to flushing at all.

Spaces · Post by **Spaces** » 12 Jul 2011, 14:19

Old-Guy wrote: We tend to forget that the calipers (the front ones in particular) get very hot as does the LHM in them. Over time this LHM breaks down but fortunately stays in the brake lines (until we force the pistons back when changing the pads.

So perhaps bleeding the brakes before changing pads is a good strategy?

Why not open the bleed nipples when pushing the pistons back in? This would solve two probs at once. Then a quick push on the pedal to clear out any old fluid in the pipes.