Xantia (S1) Wiper Tantrums

[Old-Guy]

It never rains but it pours. No sooner have I fixed the hydraulic leak than the intermittent on the wiper stopped working yesterday.

I changed the relay and the fuse without result. The odd thing is that I noticed that the automatic wipe-on-wash has also stopped working. All the other wiper functions are OK.

I can't find a proper, detailed, wiring diagram which would help me work out what the cause could be (and the wiper motor seems to be buried under the glued-on screen apron).

Does anyone familiar with wiper tantrums have any bright ideas please?

[Chris570]

my first thought there is relay, i'm sure someone will be along in a mo to assist

[citroenxm]

Ah ha

This WILL be interesting! Ive got TWO cars with this fault, ones my V6 Exclusive, the other a customers VSX..

Ive tried a different wiper stalk and that didn't work.. and also relays.. so what else could it be.. the haynes howlers are a "Typical" wash wipe diagram!
IIRC...

Paul

[Old-Guy]

......
Ive tried a different wiper stalk and that didn't work.. and also relays.. so what else could it be..

Thanks for that Paul; I had been wondering if somehow my 'upgrade' some months ago to a VSX variable intermittent stalk was responsible - obviously not.

the haynes howlers are a "Typical" wash wipe diagram!
IIRC...

Paul

Quite so, and you need to be able look at 3 or 4 pages at once (the diagram and all the applicable key pages)!

However, having got my head around the diagram and realised that the timer/relay unit has two inputs and TWO functions/modes - long period (wipe-while-washing) and pulse (intermittent) - it looks as though our problem has to be in the relay. I thought it was a bit unlikely that both the original relay and a s/h spare should have failed, but it sounds as thought it's a common problem.

It may save a lot of hassle to just buy a new one and see .....

Guy

[red_dwarfers]

Although Paul's issue wasn't to do with the stalk, assuming you've still got the original one, would it be worth swapping it back to rule that out before spending anything?

[citroenxm]

Which and where IS the actual wiper relay??

Paul

[Old-Guy]

Which and where IS the actual wiper relay??
Paul

It's one of the relays on the panel around the fuseboard above the driver's right shin. But several different panels were fitted each of which has the relays in different positions. IIRC it's in position 12 and orange - but according to the BoL it has 6 connection spades, and the spare orange relay in my box only has 5.

If I've got time today I'll see if I can refer to a data book.

[Old-Guy]

Data Update

My memory wasn't failing me (this time); I've now had a look at the relevant Autodata book, which shows the "Windscreen Wiper Intermittent Relay" for "1995 model year onwards", in position 12 (whatever significance that may have) which is the top left hand relay roughly alongside the middle two spare fuse positions. The relays are normally hidden behind the trim that surrounds the fuse-box lid.

I've popped the cover off that spare orange relay. The PCB inside has a 6046 timing chip on it; according to a quick Google, although this is a timer chip, it's often referred to as a "REAR WINDOW HEATING TIMER / LONG-TERM TIMER" and the BoL shows the HRW relay with 5 terminals. That seems pretty conclusive - I may have swapped the wrong relay!

I have now written "HRW TIMER" on the spare orange relay!

[Xantidote]

Well done Guy - useful info

And all you need to do next time you want the spare orange relay, is to remember where you put it for safe storage

[Old-Guy]

Well done Guy - useful info

And all you need to do next time you want the spare orange relay, is to remember where you put it for safe storage

In a 'safe' place, where else?

[aquamac]

Ok the large orange relay is not the FRONT intermittent wiper relay as i discovered, it may very well be the rear or what old_guy said it was labelled as earlier


I have posted some pics of the relay (this is definitive as i have repaired and tested it) is screwed above the frame where the drivers toes are and it is BLUE, for full info including pics click on the link below

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 918#284918

enjoy..

[Old-Guy]

Belated thanks for this vital information. I was relying on the professional's bible, AutoData (3) - but, like Haynes, it misses out many of the short-term variations. It's become clear that the position of Xantia relays isn't a reliable guide to which does what.

Yesterday morning, I was determined to get to the bottom of the mystery. I spent more than an hour messing about, with the car up on a lift and with various photocopied pages (from Haynes and Autodata manuals) spread on the driver's seat, trying to make sense of the relays, before I used the office computer to look at this thread again. That set me hunting for the hidden blue 'relay' - it's not easy to see. The books are all wrong - at least as far as Xantias built in 95/early 96 are concerned.

Putting the car on a lift was simply a luxury (it was raining and the the 4-post lift was the only vacant space in the workshop), but it did make life a lot easier, no awkward grovelling on the floor to see what I was doing. I took some photos which I'll publish shortly.

This morning, with the relay cover off, the fault was fairly obvious under my bench magnifier - the solder joint of one of the spade connectors onto the PCB had fractured right round and another was partially fractured. I've simply re-soldered both fractures being careful not to let the tags get hot enough to melt or distort the plastic mounting.

The various 'relays' are colour coded, but the colour doesn't necessarily indicate what each one does as some are general purpose (multi-use) - Green (multi-use), Black (multi-use), Grey (buzzer), Orange (HRW timer/relay), Blue (wiper). I have a spare orange 'relay' (that goes in position 12 on my car where Autodata says the wiper relay should be) on which I've written HRW timer/relay.

I have discovered the following facts on the BLUE wiper 'relays': -

Front & rear have identical pin-outs and perform the same set of functions (but I don't know whether they are actually interchangeable).
Both (front and rear) are combined intermittent/wipe-with-wash/park relay/delay units.
If the (front) relay is missing, the wipers still work on both speeds but no self-park, wipe-with-wash or intermittent.
Front is located above the driver's shins beside/below the under-dash fuse panel, but the combined trim panel cum fusebox lid has to be removed to see all the 'relays'.
Front 'relay' may be in a socket on the relay plate (that supports the fuse panel) or hidden away (95/96) screwed to the front/bottom edge of this plate.
Rear plugs into the wiper motor assembly inside the tailgate.

If anyone can expand this information on the 'relays', it might help someone else with a problem.