ZX Cold Start Issue - Suspect thingymabob to heater jacket!

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Rhothgar
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ZX Cold Start Issue - Suspect thingymabob to heater jacket!

Post by Rhothgar »

Hi all,

I have brought Sylv's ZX upto my mate's garage to look at the cold start issue.

I am going to swap out the leak-off pipes as the primer bulb only made a difference temporarily.

However, the initial improvement after changing the primer bulb was probably coincidental!

The waxstat thingymabob that comes off the heater jacket needs resetting.

I reckon that the screw that holds the cable at the pump end has loosened slightly.

Now this morning I did not pump the primer bulb and merely squeezed the contacts together on the cold start mechanism and it fired first time but didn't remain running.

Second time I tried I pulled the cable tighter and it slipped so this needs resetting.

The question is...

How do I do it? Presumably I have to wait until the engine is cool again. Or do I take the slack out when it's hot and it then automatically tightens the correct amount when cold?

Hope I'm making sense.

Pump is a Lucas DPC!
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Post by Peter.N. »

You will probably find that the waxstat is passed its best or not working at all. Advancing the timing will always make it start more easily but I think the real problem lies elswhere. Assuming you have checked the heater plugs for continuity and voltage the problem must be air ingress. If you have a plunger/press button type primer it could be that the diaphragm is leaking otherwise you must have a leaky joint somewhere.

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Post by spider »

It will (or should) run without the fast idle and / or the timing advance if fitted.

I actually threw my timing advance unit away and fitted a blanking plug as per some of the NA models.

They need the increased idle speed when cold that's all otherwise it will try to idle at about 600rpm and likely stall on decelleration until its warm.

The 'cold start advance' really is to reduce noise / pollution a little bit, I do not think in this country at least it does anything else, certainly mine was OK for five maybe six years (got rid now :( ) without it. It only operates with a closed acc and with a stone cold engine anyway.

You do want the cold start advance but it should start and idle regardless. I'd agree the problem is likely elsewhere, air ingress being the number one cause in most cases.
Andy.

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Post by Rhothgar »

OK. Thanks guys.

I have re-adjusted the mechanism now after speaking with Jim.

I do have some replacement leak-off piping but none of the end caps which apparently go.

I will do the leak-off tomorrow because I do need to see for myself that it is not the cold-start.

Interestingly, I did do the primer bulb months ago and it improved the situation for a week or three and then she had to start pumping again!

I cannot see any obvious leaks when pumping the bulb UNLESS it is sucking air in but not expelling diesel!!
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Post by spider »

Rhothgar wrote:I cannot see any obvious leaks when pumping the bulb UNLESS it is sucking air in but not expelling diesel!!
That's no uncommon. It can take air in but not leak as its under 'suction' when running so will not be expelling anything but the suspect area will not leak fuel out. :)

Regarding leak off caps, you could get one from a scrapyard or if desperate use a normal very short piece of pipe and close the end with a cable tie.
Andy.

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Post by CitroJim »

spider wrote:use a normal very short piece of pipe and close the end with a cable tie.
In my experience Andy, those work far better and last much longer than the pukka blanking caps :D I've lost count of the number of new blanking caps that I've seen split aver a very short time in service :evil:
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Post by Peter.N. »

..or put a self tapping screw in the end.
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Post by Rhothgar »

Perhaps what would work far better is a short piece of pipe with a self-tapping screw the same diameter as the internal hole screwed in. Perhaps with a cable tie also pulled tight around.

So basically hold a piece of pipe and pull a cable tie tight with a pair of pliers. Am I understanding this correctly?
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1988 Saab 900 T16S - A 1980's exercise in understated Hooliganism...
Oh! and two Harley Davidsons - A 1990 Sportster and a 2003 Fatboy 100th Anniversary (the only vehicle I have owned from new)
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Post by Rhothgar »

Touché! I I had have been typing ona proper keyboard and not iPhone then Peter N and I would have submitted at the same time.

Great minds!

Are the blanking Plugs really that dire?

How come I am not see any leakage?
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Post by spider »

CitroJim wrote: In my experience Andy, those work far better and last much longer than the pukka blanking caps :D I've lost count of the number of new blanking caps that I've seen split aver a very short time in service :evil:
I think it might be the quality of them Jim, the older ones seemed better. Certainly the one I put on the 205 in about '04 was still there (and leak / ingress free) when it went the other month. :)
Andy.

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Post by spider »

Rhothgar wrote:How come I am not see any leakage?
You do not normally see leakage unless its bad. The inlet side is under suction so its constantly pulling fuel in (and air in your case!) so it cannot leak out. You would obviously immediately see a leak on the return side. The actual hole / seal causing it is usually so minute you do not get a leak in most cases.

You can use plastic / blob of grease as a temporary measure to 'seal' around area's of concern, the main one being the leak off pipes (on a Bosch pump) and the fuel filter assembly on an XUD
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
Rhothgar
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My Cars: 2013 Peugeot 3008 Allure 1.6HDi - FD63 FWA VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
1995 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD S1 - M728 GDL VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
1996 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD SX S1 - N707 MGP (Currrently laid up)
2000 Citroen Xantia 2.0 HDi S2 - X435 JGJ VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] (Clutch died Dec 2017 - Resurrected Easter Sunday 2021)
1997 Citroen ZX SX TD - P788 AJL
1959 Landrover Defender S2 - Two owners from new
1968 Triumph Vitesse Convertible 2.0
1980 Ford Escort RS2000 Customer - 2nd Owner
1988 Saab 900 T16S - A 1980's exercise in understated Hooliganism...
Oh! and two Harley Davidsons - A 1990 Sportster and a 2003 Fatboy 100th Anniversary (the only vehicle I have owned from new)
x 78

Post by Rhothgar »

I now have the intercooler off and am looking around the pipes.

Basically, up to and including the injectors is classed the inlet side, right?

The internals of the intercooler and the inlet manifold are THICK with oil, like a sludge almost. Does this mean the turbo is a little loose? The car performs extremely well in terms of sharp acceleration. Just wondering if I should strip off the inlet manifold and rinse it through on a parts cleaner whilst I'm at it.
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Post by CitroJim »

The intercooler bing thick with oil is normal Roger. It's crankcase ventilation condensate and nothing whatsever to worry about...

Inlet on the fuel side of things I'd describe as the fuel pick up pipe from tank to primer, primer to filer and filter to pump.

The fuel return side is the return pipe back to the tank and the tee off for the injector leakoffs..

Air inlet is the air filter to turbo to intercooler to inlet manifold.

The piping to the injectors and the injectors themselves are termed the delivery side.
Jim

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Post by spider »

You may find you need a new intercooler seal, the 'D' seal as it usually distorts on removal, but you'll see if that's the case. I tended to replace them quite often.
Andy.

91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
Rhothgar
Donor 2023
Posts: 1758
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 00:21
Location: Nottingham - UK
My Cars: 2013 Peugeot 3008 Allure 1.6HDi - FD63 FWA VF3**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
1995 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD S1 - M728 GDL VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
1996 Citroen Xantia 1.9TD SX S1 - N707 MGP (Currrently laid up)
2000 Citroen Xantia 2.0 HDi S2 - X435 JGJ VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] (Clutch died Dec 2017 - Resurrected Easter Sunday 2021)
1997 Citroen ZX SX TD - P788 AJL
1959 Landrover Defender S2 - Two owners from new
1968 Triumph Vitesse Convertible 2.0
1980 Ford Escort RS2000 Customer - 2nd Owner
1988 Saab 900 T16S - A 1980's exercise in understated Hooliganism...
Oh! and two Harley Davidsons - A 1990 Sportster and a 2003 Fatboy 100th Anniversary (the only vehicle I have owned from new)
x 78

Post by Rhothgar »

Afternoon, Jim.

Thanks for that.

I have now replaced the leak-off and the return from last injector to pipe on top of pump. Essentially, what I was trying to deduce was are the leak-offs classed as inlet side and, of course, they must be.

Anyway, fingers crossed now. I only gently re-primed the circuit and car started fine and stalled immediately so obviously there was a little bit of air in the circuit.

I restarted and it fired and ran OK so I left it idling at around 1100 rpm for around a minute to make sure there were no further dips in the revs.

Switched off around 2.30pm and will wait now until around 8.30 - 9.30pm tonight and see if it starts without priming. If not, then it's back to the drawing board. I'm feeling pretty confident now that this has sorted the car.

When I get time, I'm going to strip off manifold and rinse it through.

One thing that did occur to me when I was poking around was the small pipe from intercooler to underside of pump. I assume that the oojamaflop on the underside of the pump is a turbo pressure sensing switch for increasing fuel delivery?

As I said earlier, her car is performing extremely well but I am just wondering if this pipe is full of pipe (VERY LIKELY!) and if so, what effect is that having if any? To be honest, the car could not be any quicker in acceleration in my view. Another thing I noticed is that there is no wire coming from this switch and it doesn't look too dissimilar to the cold start switch side of things where there is a wire attached.
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