Problems Citroën C5 2002

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
Ali77
Posts: 2
Joined: 30 May 2011, 11:10
Location:
My Cars:

Problems Citroën C5 2002

Post by Ali77 »

I have problems with my Citroen C5 2002 Plate. The speed meter is not working at all, sometimes error message shown "Auto Gear Box Fault" when i start the engine in the morning and then i have a limp mode between gear 1-2 but once i turn the engine off and start again it comes back to normal. can you please advice with soultions for these problems.
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

The fact the speedo is not working may be influencing the autobox and causing the problem. These gearboxes rely on knowing the speed to work correctly.

What model and engine is fitted?

My first recommendation is to have a diagnostic performed using a Lexia machine operated by someone who understands automatic gearboxes...

Limp mode will not affect gears 1 - 2. Limp mode only allows the engagement of thirst and reverse.

Also, when cold, the gearbox often purposely holds on to first gear in order to quickly warm up the engine and gearbox oils and the cat. This can be a tad annoying on a V6 doing 20mph at 2,500 rpm first thing in the morning in a residential area :twisted:

Try starting off in snow mode when the engine is cold as this prevents the gearbox selecting first gear...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Citroenmad
Posts: 8125
Joined: 04 Dec 2008, 22:08
Location: Northeast
My Cars: 07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
x 110

Post by Citroenmad »

Ive had the speedo fail on a 2002 C5, it was believed to be the stepper motor in the back of the speedo set which fails, this is not at all C5 related. Ive just replaced one on an XM and have another to do on another XM very soon. So its not all that rare. Unfortunately a new C5 speedo set is a staggering cost, if a mortgage is needed for a XM strut top, then a lottery win is required for a C5 speedo unit :lol:

You cna get a used one and stick that in, however don't get one with a higher mileage of your car and if the mileage of the replacement speedo can not be guaranteed, don't buy it. Your car adopts the higher mileage of a high mileage set of clocks and will retain that even if a lower mileage unit is fitted.

I know little to nothing about auto boxes, it could be a problem with the sender on the box which is not functioning the speedo unit. Ive no idea, or it could be Jims way around with the failed speedo causing a problem with the gearbox. Though I would think the car secretly knows its real speed, its just not letting you have it as the speedo head has failed. A possibility.
Chris
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
.
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

Yes, the autobox ECU will secretly know the speed Chris as there is another speed sensor in the autobox measuring the speed of the output shaft ahead of the diff...

I believe the overall scheme of things uses the signals from both speed sensors to get the full picture. This is necessary as the autobox output speed sensor may not measure true road speed in say, the case of massive wheelspin or when ABS/ESP/TLA/HRW/FSH/LHM etc. is in operation.

A Lexia session will confirm what's going on...

Interesting about replacing a speedo head with a higher mileage one :o

Did I hear correctly that if you're really gentle you can replace just the stepper motor and apparently swop it with the tacho stepper motor?
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25362
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 13:30
Location: Washington
My Cars: Mazda 6
Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX
x 4888

Post by myglaren »

CitroJim wrote:
Did I hear correctly that if you're really gentle you can replace just the stepper motor and apparently swop it with the tacho stepper motor?
Yes - avoids buggering the recorded mileage up too.
Citroenmad
Posts: 8125
Joined: 04 Dec 2008, 22:08
Location: Northeast
My Cars: 07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
x 110

Post by Citroenmad »

Ah, interesting, thats quite complex. I was under the impression that the main ECU will also know the cars speed? Im sure a Lexia will bring up what the car says.

When I retro fitted cruise control to my old Seat I was able to do so as the car knew its own speed. I have a scanguageII (a plug in trip computer type thing, which for some reason doesn't like C5s) which also told me that the car knew its exact speed and would lie to me by about 2-3MPH to give me a higher reading on the speedo. Clever!

Yes, its a bit of a problem if you don't know about it or don't know the mileage of the replacement clocks. Fitting a set of clocks with 200K on to your nice low mileage 50K mile C5 would be slightly more than irritating!

I believe so, I have the old one from our 2002 C5 which ill take apart at some point and investigate that, as it is im not totally sure, it would be handy if so.

All of the parts on the XMs speedo are interchangeable, I very easily made a good one out of two bad ones, though the speedo unit itself was good in the replacement, so im not sure about swapping it with the tacho stepper.
Chris
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
.
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
cachaciero
Posts: 1407
Joined: 13 Apr 2009, 07:24
Location: West Sussex U.K
My Cars:
x 9

Post by cachaciero »

On the C5 equipped with ESP or if you prefer ESC speed is derived from the ABS sensors on the rear wheels that is both sensor left and right, the data from the two speed sensors being averaged out to give road speed in the ESP computer, this data is then transmitted via the CAN bus to the BSI, (for instruments) Auto Gearbox ECU and injection ECU.

As has been said the speedo itself is a torque motor and is identical to the tacho, plugs into the PCB easy job to change. The torque motor fails due to a plastic spindle breaking in the gear train. I reckon that this is repairable, I thought that the shank of an appropriate sized drill bit and a drop of loctite would do it. However in the end a secondhand panel from a breakers gave me two torque motors for £40.00 seemed attractively easier :-)

cachaciero
2006 Toyota Prius T Spirit
2001 2.2 C5 Exclusive SE
1996 XM 2.1 TD Auto VSX
1995 XM 2.1 TD Auto SX died @ 140K
1987 CX 2.5 Gti Turbo II dead
1984 Ford Scorpio
1981 CX 2.4 Pallas Auto
Renault 21
1220 GS Club
Rover P6 2000TC
Ali77
Posts: 2
Joined: 30 May 2011, 11:10
Location:
My Cars:

Re: speedo meter location

Post by Ali77 »

the speed meter sensor 616070 needs to be replaced but i couldn't locate its place . it should be somewhere around the gearbox. If anybody has a hint please reply to my message. My car is Citroen C5 02 automatic deasil . :)
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49518
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6156
Contact:

Re: Problems Citroën C5 2002

Post by CitroJim »

It will be on top of the final drive housing (differential) just above the place where the RH (long) driveshaft enters the gearbox. Sometimes it has a metal heatshield around it, thus obscuring the view of it.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Post Reply