help...

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 25 May 2011, 19:51

chaps. to say I need some urgent pointers is an understatement..

I am moving out of my house on Saturday, and between now and then am absolutely reliant on my xantia..
for the first time ever, tonight, it has given up ..

it could not be a worse time.. really..

quick story is :
It has been cold starting badly in the last few days.., I have put up with it and got some new glow plugs but not fitted them. However, the starting has quickly got worse.. tonight though, it would not start from hot.. even with a bump.
I thought it was low on fuel and added 50L to it, I primed all i could and although the bulb did not get tough, the pressure of fuel wanting to expel itself when I removed the pipe from the top of the fuel housing suggests there wasn't an issue with fuelling

what on earth could have happened? the car has been running perfectly in the last few days, once started.. if anything, it has just cleared itself a bit and is running better than ever.. some black smoke under acceleration but thats all..

I think it has the original bosch, complete with immob.. before I try and get it recovered from the verge tomorrow, is there anything else i can check or do? it almost starts and will do that for as long as the battery lasts.. its quite close to running but it also can sounds pretty dead. I couldn't have given it any more turns tonight..

coolant fine, oil fine, was running fine all day.. (well for the last 3 years)

desperate...

Spare, I have a lucas pump and I think a bosch, but the bosch is an unknown quantity..
It cant be the glows? not with a hot start and hardly even trying to show life.. I even tried bumping it..

sorry for the long post..

John

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 25 May 2011, 20:15

ok.. having another think..
my knowledge of the inside of the IP has yet to be learnt.. (I wanted to take one apart on the bench and get to know it, rebuilding with new seals.. life has transpired to prevent this happening for now)

what could have gone wrong with my IP, such that starting the car cold has quickly got bad, and now it wont start een when hot...

or am I not thinking laterally? I am 99% sure tonight if it had fired up it would have ran cleanly.. and got me home,

in fact, is there anything much in a bosch pump that aids starting? or is it really down to the glowplugs alone? I guess I could have lost 3 by this evening but surely it would have ran eventually... it was 30 miles into a journey..

KevMayer · Unread post by **KevMayer** » 25 May 2011, 20:23

Could it be an air leak into one of the injector leak off pipes. Check these leak off pipes.

Unread post by **RichardW** » 25 May 2011, 20:36

Bad luck John...how do they always know when they are needed ???

Did it actually stop then refuse to re-start?

I'd be tempted to 'whip' the cambelt covers off and check the timing.

Chlorate · Unread post by **Chlorate** » 25 May 2011, 20:43

The leak offs would have to be leaking pretty hard if it wouldn't even cough.

Four things that could cause that: no air, no fuel, no compression, timing belt failed.

Your fuel system seems to be priming ok, so it could be an immobiliser or stop solenoid issue (basically the same thing). Bosh pumps tend to be pretty solid, they're more likely to leak than to stop working altogether I'd say.

No air is highly unlikely.

No compression is also unlikely unless you've been having overheating problems for quite a while.

Timing belt failure is pretty self explanatory.

You should be able to start even without glow plugs, especially in this good weather. It'll take a bit of cranking, but it'll splutter to life.

I'd probably have a look at the stop solenoid first.

-Alex

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 25 May 2011, 20:57

Try squirting some easy start into the air intake, if it will fire up on that but not start you have a fuel injection problem - if it doesn't check your cam belt.

Peter

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 25 May 2011, 21:04

Chlorate wrote:I'd probably have a look at the stop solenoid first.

I'm putting my money on this^^^ being a bit gummed up and sticking. If you can get to it, give the plunger and pump recess a thorough cleaning and light greasing of the solenoid recess only before refitting.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 25 May 2011, 21:20

Hi John - commission paid in advance, in case it helps.

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 25 May 2011, 22:38

thanks all very much, I really appreciate the responses..
had a chat with C_Jim earlier.. (many thanks Jim

)

Jim agree's that is is very unlikely to be the Pump as such, so :

GP's - either one is shorting, and bringing the rest with it, or the power to all of them may be failing , or even that 2 were gone this week and maybe a third gave up tonight (one of my ideas)

Stop Solenoid (immob)

The return pipe to tank, are the most likely culprits....

I can test these at the side of road quite easily.. blowing down the tank pipe, removing and testing the gp's or / and replacing them, and cracking the injection pipes..

Peter, I threw away my easy start that I have had in the garage for 3 years, 2 days ago

but I think I know which bag it went into!

Addo, thanks... bear with me..

I almost feel like buying another xant - just for the weekend! - but I am desperatly trying to get rid of vehicles.. 3 have gone today, although this one was not planned!

Rich, yes cars seem to know when you really need them!

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 26 May 2011, 08:04

John arnt you useing cooking oil or the likes,

if so maybe something is bunged up with gooooo,

regards malcolm

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 26 May 2011, 08:33

hmm yes thinking about what Mike is saying.,. maybe the stop solenoid has finally bunged up..

forgot to mention, I was not driving the car just before it broke, but other half said it had lost most of it's power, like it was running out of fuel..
I put 50L in, and it came out of the filler cap, so it must have had some in I would think.. (although WVO can be slow to drain into the tank)

..

wil visit the car in a sec and probably remove IP and then all the glows while I am there..

first I will crack one of the injection pipes, and blow down the tank return..

before that I will try and start her again..

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 26 May 2011, 12:32

phew

all fixed.. dodging in between heavy showers for the last 3 hours ,and 3 seperate runs home to grab things, and the car is running like nothing went wrong!

big thanks to jim for phone support!

I had no fuel from the injection pipes so was all set to pul the pump off the car, but instead tried again with the pipes removed.. sure enough there was a jet of fuel from the lower two ports in the distribution head.. after another 30 turns all 4 ports had fuel coming out..

Jim suggested I remove the line back to the tank (from the pump) and sure enough nothing coming from that union.. I undid the union and there was all the fuel sitting behind it..

to cut a long story short, I grabbed another valve/union off the spare pump, primed and fuel came out of the return..
whilst waiting for the spare pump to arrive,

, I pulled the two easy glows.. one woprked fine, the other a complete short!
so fuel not allowed to return, and no glow plugs..!

all back together,drove the car home, and it is like nothing ever happened

will take the rest of the day off and try to get on with the packing!

I did accidently explode some easy start in the engine, gave the other half a shock

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 26 May 2011, 13:01

Good work.

Now buy yourself an Alfa 147 (petrol) to run around in when all else goes pear-shaped.

This works for me - the only mechanical failure has been a busted wiper linkage. Ms might like it as well. Yawn/comfort factors will dictate you still prefer the Xantia.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 26 May 2011, 13:14

good to here your back up and running John,
but please DO NOT TRY BUMP STARTING A DIESEL, as you risck blowing/shattering the clutch to bits,

i saw this on a BX it tuned out the startting faul was just glow plugs,

ended up haveing a new clutch as well

regards malcolm

Chlorate · Unread post by **Chlorate** » 26 May 2011, 13:17

addo wrote:Good work.

Now buy yourself an Alfa 147 (petrol) to run around in when all else goes pear-shaped. This works for me - the only mechanical failure has been a busted wiper linkage. Ms might like it as well. Yawn/comfort factors will dictate you still prefer the Xantia.

An Alfa more reliable than a Citroen?!

Surely not!