Towing weight question

[mlkey]

Hi guys its a '98 Synergie petrol and I've had a towbar fitted to pull a 875kg caravan. I'm assuming this is ok for the car?
What is the maximum towing weight for my Synergie?

I've done a search but cant seem to find anything.

Thanks Nathan

Hi Nathan,

You vehicle has a maximum towing limit of 1300kg, although this will put it very slightly over the 85%. Towing a van of up to 1000kg should present no issues providing you load it correctly, and take note of the noseweight. I am not sure if you have the 8v or 16v engine, but I tow with a 2004 C5 2.0i 16v (not HPI) petrol auto, and tug a 1000kg van around without too much trouble, although the C5 is best part of 200kg lighter than the Synergie.

Another good website re towing is: http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp#tab1

Hope that helps,

Regards,

Mike.

In the ( very elementary ) learning establishments that I hardly attended 85% of 1300Kg = 1105 Kg which leaves you well underweight.

The 85% " rule " is only a recommendation , not UK Law. predominently aimed at newcomers who go too fast usually . albeit a very sensible one .

Sorry, your information is incorrect. Depending on which petrol engine is fitted, the kerb weight of the Synergie is between 1510 and 1525kg. 85% of those kerb weights is between 1283 and 1296kg, and therefore, if you towed the maximum permissible weight (by vehicle design), you would be exceeding the 85% recommendation, albeit by a very small margin.

I am also fully aware that the 85% rule is only a recommendation, and never suggested otherwise. It is not all about vehicle stability though, while diesels are well suited to pulling weights close to the vehicle design maximum, most mid range petrol engine vehicles would struggle to perform adequately.

[Citroenmad]

That calculator has some results which bend my head.

For example, suggesting a C4 can tow a braked trailer of 1700kg mass...

I went looking at caravans with my parents to other day, as they are wanting one. I was surprised to see that my 56 reg C5 2.0HDi 138 can tow 1700kg braked but our estate car, which has the same engine and spec as my hatch, will only tow 1600kg Presumably its because the estate weighs a little more but that is still a reduction of 100kg, which rules out a good few caravans.

A C6 is out as a tow car too, only 1400 from the 2.7 auto Thats 100KG less than our 110 HDi C5 hatch.

[Dippy]

Hi Nathan,

You vehicle has a maximum towing limit of 1300kg, although this will put it very slightly over the 85%. Towing a van of up to 1000kg should present no issues providing you load it correctly, and take note of the noseweight. I am not sure if you have the 8v or 16v engine, but I tow with a 2004 C5 2.0i 16v (not HPI) petrol auto, and tug a 1000kg van around without too much trouble, although the C5 is best part of 200kg lighter than the Synergie.

Another good website re towing is: http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp#tab1

Hope that helps,

Regards,

Mike.

In the ( very elementary ) learning establishments that I hardly attended 85% of 1300Kg = 1105 Kg which leaves you well underweight.

The 85% " rule " is only a recommendation , not UK Law. predominently aimed at newcomers who go too fast usually . albeit a very sensible one .

Sorry, your information is incorrect. Depending on which petrol engine is fitted, the kerb weight of the Synergie is between 1510 and 1525kg. 85% of those kerb weights is between 1283 and 1296kg, and therefore, if you towed the maximum permissible weight (by vehicle design), you would be exceeding the 85% recommendation, albeit by a very small margin.

I am also fully aware that the 85% rule is only a recommendation, and never suggested otherwise. It is not all about vehicle stability though, while diesels are well suited to pulling weights close to the vehicle design maximum, most mid range petrol engine vehicles would struggle to perform adequately.

Hi Mikey,

much head scratching , maths ain't my thing .

Taking the synergie range overall ( according to my handbook on my lap )

All models have a 1300Kg max. trailer weight
Nathan states his Caravan weighs 875kg ( laden or unladen unknown)

lightest syn' is 1445Kg Unladen. heaviest 1615Kg Unladen

assuming , simply as an example , Nathan owns the lighter of the Syn' range ( 1.8 Petrol)

then 1445Kg x 85% = 1228Kg Therefore 1228 - 875 = 353Kg Underweight.
Thats at the minimum stated kerbweight .

The same vehicle can also itself be loaded up to 2085Kg Gross Vehicle weight , in which case :
2085 x 85 % = 1772Kg which would then exceed the manufacturers towing limit by 472Kg and render it either illegal, or limited to 40m.p.h hardly ideal either way .

If , the towcar was at is Max GVW , which Nathan is perfectly entitled to do . Then his caravan would only be 49% of the towcar weight.

Totally agree with the Petrol/Diesel towcar scenario , but I have also towed with a friends 2.0 petrol ( 8V) Syn' and overall it had a better performance , including towing , than my 1.9TD

Remarkably , in the real world it was only 5 m.p.g worse on fuel than my diesel day to day and much faster . but significantly worse on fuel whilst towing .

However , I have owned Petrol towcars that were simply pathetic despite their supposed b.h.p advantage . the worse French Car being a 1.6 ( carb) BX Estate.

I don't read too much into stated figures , A weighbridge will almost certainly scotch any idea of both the Car and Caravan's manufacturers unladen weight figures being accurate . I work on at least 3 - 5% more for a car and 5 - 10 % more for a caravan based on my own past experience .

This is getting interesting .

Looks like being Calculators at Dawn Can't do Battle tonight cos' mine's Solar powered .

[mlkey]

No need for calculators.. In my first response, I was just highlighting that the vehicle's maximum tow weight by design was 1300kg, and so up to 1000kg should be a fairly easy tow. Being that the OP is talking about a 875kg caravan, then there should be no issues. I am not trying to muddy the waters, and the 85% recommendation really does not come into it in this instance, I suppose I was hinting at the fact that some petrols do not perform well when tested that far.

[mendedit]

And I thought it was all about the vehicle being able to stop the towed weight rather than if it can pull it.

[mongoose100]

Some might find this troubling to read but I've just done a 1300k return trip with the V6 Xantia with another Xantia on the transporter.

About 2500Kg getting towed thru New Zealands hilly terrain, to be honest, it pulled far better on way back with the car on it than it did empty!

Total fuel consumption was 11L/100k which I thought was very respectable

[daviemck2006]

The same vehicle can also itself be loaded up to 2085Kg Gross Vehicle weight , in which case :
2085 x 85 % = 1772Kg which would then exceed the manufacturers towing limit by 472Kg and render it either illegal, or limited to 40m.p.h hardly ideal either way .

If , the towcar was at is Max GVW , which Nathan is perfectly entitled to do . Then his caravan would only be 49% of the towcar weight .

Only really supposed to use the unladen kerbweight ot the car to work out the 85%, then use the lowest ot the 85% or the car manfacturers towing weight. The 85% as far as I am aware is only recommended, I tow at 91% when van fully laden, but I would think that the manufacturers maximum towing weight is the legal limit, and if you exceeded that and then had an accident your insurance would be invalid and you could find yourself on a charge of some description with the police.

[Dippy]

Some might find this troubling to read but I've just done a 1300k return trip with the V6 Xantia with another Xantia on the transporter.

About 2500Kg getting towed thru New Zealands hilly terrain, to be honest, it pulled far better on way back with the car on it than it did empty!

Total fuel consumption was 11L/100k which I thought was very respectable

Sounds Great , Green with envy , I can only assume that N.Z isn't burdened with the U.K / Euro " invent a new traffic law per minute " culture .

No substitute fer cubes , as the yanks say

[Dippy]

The same vehicle can also itself be loaded up to 2085Kg Gross Vehicle weight , in which case :
2085 x 85 % = 1772Kg which would then exceed the manufacturers towing limit by 472Kg and render it either illegal, or limited to 40m.p.h hardly ideal either way .

If , the towcar was at is Max GVW , which Nathan is perfectly entitled to do . Then his caravan would only be 49% of the towcar weight .

Only really supposed to use the unladen kerbweight ot the car to work out the 85%, then use the lowest ot the 85% or the car manfacturers towing weight. The 85% as far as I am aware is only recommended, I tow at 91% when van fully laden, but I would think that the manufacturers maximum towing weight is the legal limit, and if you exceeded that and then had an accident your insurance would be invalid and you could find yourself on a charge of some description with the police.

Absolutely , it's when the Eurocrats start re -inventing the wheel and using complicated formula for a very simple calculation .

The Police - by and large are very helpful , and I have witnessed them tranferring load from Caravans to tow vehicle on quite a few occasions over the years in order to achieve status quo.

The Ministry Men are absolutely ruthless !

Some people don't do themselves any favours though , and don't give a hoot about the condition / loading of their towed appendage - which will be to all our detriment eventually .

I do wonder if they( the Police) will be allowed to remain so helpful ? with the advent of on the spot fines for motoring offences ? another revenue earner in lieu of closing speed camera's sorry, Mr cynical has woken up .

The Insurers will bale - out at the first opportunity as usual - the onus is on the operator to be compliant .

Excess Speed has to be major issue these days when towing ?
I have lost count of the number of caravanners that have flown past me on the motorway when I am doing 70m.p.h( solo)
Cruisin' fer a Bruisin' - Big Time.
I invariably pull up at the side of them a few service stations later .....

[Dippy]

No need for calculators.. In my first response, I was just highlighting that the vehicle's maximum tow weight by design was 1300kg, and so up to 1000kg should be a fairly easy tow. Being that the OP is talking about a 875kg caravan, then there should be no issues. I am not trying to muddy the waters, and the 85% recommendation really does not come into it in this instance, I suppose I was hinting at the fact that some petrols do not perform well when tested that far.

Know where your coming from Mikey , I am possibly boring forum members witless with this stuff , hopefully not , neither am I world expert on anything ......

Real world example - Our 405 Estate 1.9D none - turbo , Full Family load , Caravan at 90% ,got baulked taking a run at telegraph hill ( some of you will be familiar ) and only JUST made it over the top in 1st gear at crawling pace , phew

If it had ground to a halt , there wasn't a cat in hells chance of re - starting , with that car , on that incline

The car was eminently qualified to tow - loading wise . it just didn't have the beans .

Devon & Cornwall Dibble would not have been amused ....

The best ever compromise power/pulling/economy was our 406 with the 2.1 TD .

The 1.9 TD Synergie fares very well though, aided by it's lower gearing.

[daviemck2006]

I try to stay legal, very difficult as you say in these days when we get a new law invented every 5 mins! I've towed loaded car trailers, stock cars with loads of strengthing bars welded in must be far in excess than any cars kerb weight with no probs in the past, as long as you take your time. True also of caravanning, I'm over recommended 85% but under cars towing weight but never go above 60mph, usually less and the van is loaded what I consider properly. There is also the question of noseweight on towbar, I dont measuer mine, probably over the recommended, but as long as i can lift the drawbar of the van I'm happy. If it is too light the stability suffers too much.

[Dippy]

I try to stay legal, very difficult as you say in these days when we get a new law invented every 5 mins! I've towed loaded car trailers, stock cars with loads of strengthing bars welded in must be far in excess than any cars kerb weight with no probs in the past, as long as you take your time. True also of caravanning, I'm over recommended 85% but under cars towing weight but never go above 60mph, usually less and the van is loaded what I consider properly. There is also the question of noseweight on towbar, I dont measuer mine, probably over the recommended, but as long as i can lift the drawbar of the van I'm happy. If it is too light the stability suffers too much.

Cuts through all the percentage crap - straight to the point.
Experience - No substitute .

I use a noseweight guage these days , just so I know where I am at when juggling loads - but that is only static as you know and may have little relevance in motion. I use a stabiliser to counter the caravan " lift " as speed increases , more than actual stability, they can lull you into a false sense of security ...

The caravan hitch has a max load stamped into , mine is 150Kg
I once loaded the van up to the hitch limit as an experiment , it just about seized the sliding hitch !

Again , as you are aware , Caravan hitches are P... Poor compared to a proper trailer hitch coupling .

Formula 1 stockers - those were the days :
Willie Harrison , Ellis Ford , Belle Vue stadium - Gold Tops .

[addo]

Just revisiting this topic after a recent towing session exceeding 600 miles return.

Moderately loaded car (Xantia break), heavily loaded trailer with marginal noseweight. Not much sensation of tail wagging the dog; certainly less than when I've driven with just a heavy load in the back and no trailer.

Economy with cruise engaged? Bloomin' awful! About 62 litres over 450 kilometres on the initial leg (most heavily loaded). 2.016V with AL4 box.

The other interesting bit - awful weather at times and the cruise was not clever when lugging uphills; a few times it kicked down through off-camber climbing turns and the resultant wheelspin on tarmac sheeted with water tried to understeer me off the road. Definitely not a game for amateurs.

[daviemck2006]

Yep, towing not for amateurs. I'm thinging of changing c5 2.2hdi, wanting better economy and cheaper road tax. Probably be for another c5 or a pug 407. The newer 2.0 hdi will manage the van well, similar power and torque to my older 2.2, was wondering if anyone tows with the 1.6hdi. the weights are ok, my old 2.0jtd ulyssee with 110bhp was ok but the 1.6 is less torque. I'm asking cos the 1.6 is best for running costs, and if I were to go for the design then none of this fap crap that I have just now, even though I've not had any bother with it.

[Dippy]

After an " entertaining " week with the G.Pic it has finally been wrenched from my grasp .

Due to lack of towbar I was unable to road test it with our Caravan , but since its overall eagerness and sustained pull certainly surprised me ,

I have little doubt it may account for itself very well with a trailer hooked up. The flappy gear mode would be a real bonus .

My only question would be how the EGS box / Clutch performs with the additional load ? neither do I know the manufacturers towing weight limit.

Maybe an experienced G.Pic 1.6 Hoody - owning Caravanner would care to comment ?

Back to old Synthia then , like an old pair of worn slippers really - comfortable and easy to use - but yer can't sprint very fast.

Off fer t'weekend then , well 2 of us . Vital foodstuffs packed first.