xantia versus c5

[wornelly]

thinking of changing my car too a c5, is this a gd choice ??

[citroenxm]

NO... in short...

Not really.. Get a LATE Xantia, X or a Y plate.. much better choice.

Theres lots and lots of niggles and problems with C5's some worse then Xantias (SOrry CitroenMad, I know you love the C5)

Dont get me wrong. The C5 is a GOOD car, but theres lots of problems.

Interior door handles break
Rear calipers Lean in WORSE then Xantias.
Front Caliper Handbrake levers Sieze
Handbrake cables are a nightmare to change when they sieze in the cable carrier
Child locks on rear drivers side passenger door give LOTS of problems
Early cars not quite as good on fuel as Xantias or later 16v engine DERVs

Just my experience really.. but Id sooner a Late Xantia.

Paul

[Peter.N.]

Having run BXs, CXs and XMs for the past 25 years or so, I was at one time considering a C5 primarily because of the suspension, but after reading owners reviews and fault forums I decided against it.

What I have bought is a 406 Hdi estate, which apart for what I regard as a hard ride is an excellent car, it uses the same 2.0 ltr engine as the earlier C5 but its relaible and quite well put together.

Check the 'owners reviews' on Parkers guide, from what I read it would seem that about 75% of people that bought a C5 would never have another but 75% of 406 owners would.

Peter

[citroenxm]

You only have to look right here for c5 problems.....

Paul

[boristhespie]

Sigh................

[daviemck2006]

NO... in short...

Not really.. Get a LATE Xantia, X or a Y plate.. much better choice.

Theres lots and lots of niggles and problems with C5's some worse then Xantias (SOrry CitroenMad, I know you love the C5)

Dont get me wrong. The C5 is a GOOD car, but theres lots of problems.

Interior door handles break
Rear calipers Lean in WORSE then Xantias.
Front Caliper Handbrake levers Sieze
Handbrake cables are a nightmare to change when they sieze in the cable carrier
Child locks on rear drivers side passenger door give LOTS of problems
Early cars not quite as good on fuel as Xantias or later 16v engine DERVs

Just my experience really.. but Id sooner a Late Xantia.

Paul

I've had none of these problems in 3 years and 50k, car now 8 yrs old and 100k and I've no idea what to change it to other than another c5. I get 46mpg regularly from the 2.2, only problem been the alternator packing up, could happen to anything

[Quackers]

thinking of changing my car too a c5, is this a gd choice ??

I just changed to a C5 and i love the many toys.

[Citroenmad]

Ok, I think im more than qualified to answer this! There have been 5 C5s here now and many miles have been covered ....

Short answer ... Yes, a good idea ....

Long answer:

Ill answer these:
Interior door handles break - Not had this
Rear calipers Lean in WORSE then Xantias - Had this slightly, as long as they are maintained you wont have a problem.
Front Caliper Handbrake levers Sieze - Yep this too, fairly quick and straight forward to fix and again avoided if they are lubricated on services.
Handbrake cables are a nightmare to change when they sieze in the cable carrier - I did this to try and rectify the above, it defeated me so I sent it to a Citroen indy
Child locks on rear drivers side passenger door give LOTS of problems - Never had this issue
Early cars not quite as good on fuel as Xantias or later 16v engine DERVs - This may be true, 110 2.0HDi seems to average 44-45MPG and the 2.0 HDi 138s do around 50 on average - just fantastic! Ill add here that for ease of ownership a lot of people prefer the slightly older and slightly more known 2.0HDi 8v, this one does not have a FAP filter but it does have a DMF. FAP filters are really not the bother they are made out to be, as long as the fluid is topped up on time and the car is not confined to short runs for ever. Indeed the later later 16vs seem to suffer fewer problems, not sure why. As for drive, the 138 2.0HDi is noticeably quicker, it has a 6 speed box which makes it very refined and excellent on fuel. Sat with the cruise set at 60 for 100 motorway miles (after tripping the computer) the other day and it recorded 70.1MPG! Not a realistic average but it shows how efficient the 138 is.

So as for lots of problems, there are niggly things but nothing really huge which should prevent use of the car or compromise safety ...

Id have C5s for ever more, its Xantia issues which scare me!
-Heater matrix - I really don't want to have to do this with mine
-Strut tops - not cheap to replace with new ones and used ones can be hard to source and questionable condition as they should all be a similar age. Not a hard job to replace but far from excellent if the first you know about their condition is them making an appearance through the bonnet
- Radiator - this is my latest pet hate after reading Jims trials with his, this might be more of an Activa thing though I cant imagine the V6 and others being all to easy either.
- Rust - especially on later saloons and hatchbacks it does seem to be getting an issue, mainly in the rear door and wheel arch areas. I hate rust.

So you see, Xantias are not bullet proof either! Id rather tackel any of the above C5 jobs than the above Xantia ones. The C5 does not suffer with any of the above, yet!

Two main things which C5s:
DMF (dual mass flywheel fitted to all C5 diesels) this is common on most modern diesels now and a lot of petrols too, so you can not avoid them if choosing a recent car and it is by no means a PSA Peugeot Citroen issue, its across the board. The DMF can break up and require replacement, this can happen at varying mileages from 30 onwards, the most popular time for change seems around 70-80K but a lot do last an awful lot longer than that - my bet is its how you use it - ride the clutch at junctions and the likes and it will take its toll and cost you. However, kits are available for the 2.0HDi 110 to convert it to a solid flywheel, our 110 has this conversion and its done more miles with it than before with its original. (60K on the DMF and 70K on the solid one)

FAP Filters, as fitted to all 2.2HDi 136 (first generation of 16V diesel in the C5) and later 1.6 HDi 110 (for some reason the C5II 1.6HDi in special edition [read base trim] 'Design' spec does not have a FAP) and 2.0HDi 138. This is a filter to help with lowering emissions, it uses a fluid which is stored under the car to aid the FAP process. The Fluid needs topping up at 80K mile intervals (this does differ depending on your engine but its around that, more on the later 16vs I believe). If the fluid is left low it can cause issues, the FAP filter itself can need replacing but many owners have successfully power washed them with good results. Or these can actually be disconnected, something I might well look into over time. I wouldn't and don't worry about the FAP filters.

As the C5 is a lot more modern it brings a lot of perks, spec is greatly improved and its very easy to find them with the spec you like - every single C5 has air con for example. Safety is another, the first shape C5I is a 4 star and and the C5II (or facelift) is a 5 star and actually tops the new C5III in a frontal impact. While I don't ever want to try out its millions of air bags, stability control or impact zones its nice to know it will do its best should the worst happen. Ive not had a look back at the Xantia crash picture, not while I own one but I know which one of my two big Cits id be sat in if they ever had a coming together!

The C5 is a bigger car and so it does offer more space inside and a bigger boot, it also has more oddment storage. The driving position is greatly improved too.

As far as the drive goes, the C5 is more predictable and is very sure footed. The Xantia a little more tail happy and lighter on its feet. I like driving C5s though the earlier cars are vague but ride better, the later ones (even later S1 VTRS) are much improved for handling and composure. My poor C5s gets pushed around and while it rolls it grips well and its fairly enjoyable to chuck too, it is a later one which has much more direct steering than the earlier examples, especially ones with smaller wheels.

Comfort wise, if its a Xantia which has its suspension spot on with healthy spheres, height correctors etc etc then that will be the better riding car. However so many Xantia I see about now are in poor health. The C5 is a very comfortable ride, not as forgiving as the Xantia and certainly not the XM but still way ahead of the coil sprung rivals. The C5s suspension also requires less maintenance, its spheres last longer and there are less of them, there are less pipes and in general its a very reliable system. Of course it still delivers the self leveling which, because of the electric pump can be activated when the doors are opened/closed with the engine off. This does make the C5 quicker to pump in from low or adjust height. The C5 does not sink to the floor when parked I might add. It has only 4 spheres or 6 on the H3+ cars.

Seats, well Im not a fan of basic Xantia seats and find the C5s are more comfortable. Activa seats are different to many Xantia seats and are quite good - I found another adjustment on it the other day, just on the passenger seat though! XM seats are like armchairs and the C5s don't quite match them. On a long journey I can last a similar amount of time in C5 of XM before requiring a stop.

Refinement, well this is where the C5 excels above the XM and Xantia. Wind noise is greatly reduced, engine noise is inaudible above city speeds and road noise is also less than the others. All in all a very very refined place to be, quite excellent for a large family car, its quieter than a lot of exec cars ive used.

Hmm, what else is there?

Running costs, well the Xantia seems to be a higher insurance group than the similar powered C5, not sure why. Unless its a very very late Xantia then road tax is higher than the C5 diesels - £125 for the 2.0 110 and £155 for the 2.0 138 or there abouts. Fueling has already been covered, the C5 2.0 110 is a little more juicy than the same engine in the Xantia but it is a bigger and heavier car. The 138 is simply excellent on fuel, as im sure is the 1.6 too, though that might fall down a little with its less power and torque. Tyres for C5s are a lot more than Xantias, unless its the 2.0HDi 110 in either LX or SX trim, most C5s use 215.55.16 tyres which range from around £100 each for mid rang up to £140 each for Michelins.

I have in the past considered a Xantia HDi for a daily, though I prefer C5s for the daily car. They represent excellent value for money, they are easy to find and replaceable should you need to.

Im onto my 3rd C5 HDi now, ive slowly been improving on spec, engine or both and ive said it before but nothing around can fill the space of my C5, as nothing does as much as this car does. I often require a car which can take heavy loads (I hate bouncing around on bump stops!), I need a large hatchback car with a big boot, its spacious for 5 people, the engines are good, strong and economical with a nice range of pull, the spec is excellent, its a very safe car, its nice to drive, refined, fantastic value for money and it also satisfies my interest in Citroens too. Id not swap it for a diesel Xantia, nor would I swap it for any of its competitors, the C5III very much included in that, its smaller inside, its a saloon and so on.

I have my Xantia Activa which I do like very much, though for a daily car the C5 makes much more sense. The Xantia is a great car, taking away the Activa bit now, but the C5 has improved on a lot of its aspect in my opinion.

So the C5 is more electrically based than the Xantia, though that is no bad thing and often is a help rather than a hindrance as it can tell you if there is a problem. The Comms 2000 unit is the most common failing on the C5 electrical side and that is a fast and not too expensive repair.

I very much recommend C5s, I have actually too and everyone has been delighted with theirs - these are people who have previously owned XMs or Xantias.

I don't believe this C5s are unreliable nonsense, I would not buy one after the other or recommend them if they were. You will find good ones and bad ones, but in general thats to do with how they have been looked after. Which does bring me nicely onto this point .... C5s have not really retained their value too well, early diesels can be had from £1000 now and this leads me to believe a few will have been neglected and any servicing, maintenance or repairs might have been neglected if they have turned into a cheap hack about. A poorly maintained one will be less reliable and have issues. Get a good one and it will last and last and last ...

Our eldest C5 is a 2.0 110HDI, I know its been a very well looked after car as I know its one and only previous owner. Its now done 130K miles and has been very enjoyable and very cheap to keep over its 2 plus years since its been here.

You might read this and consider that I think the C5s are the best cars there is, far from it, but they are very good at what they do and as a daily driver they are great.

Edit: And another reason ive had so many C5s is after looking about on rival forums at other makes of car, so many have huge issues the C5 was one of the more reliable ones! Its not disappointed.

Let me know if ive missed anything

I do also like Xantias however and they too have their plus points and are great cars. Though there are better people to answer for those and you already own one.

[citroenxm]

Of course the c5 is good I do like them.. I wasn't saying they were bad.. just the things I've found on them I listed...

If the c5 is as good in 10 years as it is now then I hold my hands up.. yes the c5 is an improvement but will they be just as good later...? I hope to think so..

Nice write up Chris and yes Yur more then qualified for your write up..

I believe the s1.5 is much better again.. the one you have now..?

Paul

[den169]

Had both a Xantia estate and a c5 estate which is a far better car i wouldn't go back to a xantia,Although if it was a c5 saloon there so ugly i might just pick the xantia.Had my c5 nearly 5 years and spent about £200 on bits,Other than brake pads tyres etc,So i am very happy with it.

[Citroenmad]

I know you quite like the C5 Paul and yep, the C5 1.5 as you put it is a vast improvement in my opinion, the early cars are still very good though.

Ugly, well that is in the eye of the beholder. I did think the original C5 saloon was no looker, though they have grown on me now and I actually quite like it. The facelifted C5 did revise the saloon more and that is now a good looking car in my opinion, much better proportioned.

My Xantia got a comment the other day, something like "Its a good job this car handles, as it looks like crap!" I almost left them there without a lift but I did tell them how wrong they are. Thankfully whether you like a C5s looks or not, it doesn't detract from the car itself.

My two

Saloons, C5I and C5II


The C5 does suit the estate well though.

[KevMayer]

One major factor the C5 has over the Xantia is safety. The C5 has a good N-cap rating whereas the Xantia is an old design now.

I like the look of the Xantia but the safety levels in terms of crash protection in the passenger cell aren't at the same level as modern cars.

[citroenxm]

I don't let saftey dictate what car I drive... not saying you do either Kev.. but I also don't go out expecting an accident to happen and in the event would have to deal with it accordenley..

Paul

[Citroenmad]

I can't say too many people set off of a morning and sets out to have an accident. It happens though, I probably pass at least one a week, its somehting people should at least plan for with their car. Not that it should solely dictate your car choice but certainly something to bear in mind, i mean some things should just be avoided:



Just 40MPH. I can think of other reasons to avoid those mind

It is something I htink about when buying a car, but its not everything and the chances of having an accident are fairly slim given the amount of cars on the roads. Though I do like the idea of the car being strong and safe with multiple bags etc should I need to rely on it.

If I only chose what cars I went in due to its safety, id avoid the Traction! There are enough knobs, brackets and metal on its dash fascia to distort your face in a 5mph bump The lack of seatbelts don't help too much either

[KevMayer]

What made me consider safety was an article on the Fifth Gear motoring programme.

They did some very graphic tests to demonstrate how much more 'survivable' a crash would be in a modern vehicle.