Umm, another wedge going in thin end first...
Moderator: RichardW
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49532
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6163
- Contact:
Umm, another wedge going in thin end first...
This could be risky.
The powers that be are speaking of on-the-spot fines and three points for careless driving.
Reported here by the Broken Biscuit Company
This really is a worrying. If a grouchy rozzer is having a bad day and nicks you out of sheer spite what recourse will you have?
Plus, one rozzer's idea of careless driving is a bit subjective..
The powers that be are speaking of on-the-spot fines and three points for careless driving.
Reported here by the Broken Biscuit Company
This really is a worrying. If a grouchy rozzer is having a bad day and nicks you out of sheer spite what recourse will you have?
Plus, one rozzer's idea of careless driving is a bit subjective..
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
-
- Posts: 8125
- Joined: 04 Dec 2008, 22:08
- Location: Northeast
- My Cars: 07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10 - x 110
Who was that pulling out in the Xantia Exclusive
Yes risky, no doubt many will see it as another money making exercise.
Yes risky, no doubt many will see it as another money making exercise.
Chris
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
.
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
.
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
-
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
- Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
- My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon - x 231
I think I'm in favour too, after listening to the report.
1. Prosecutions for bad driving have fallen dramatically due to political pressure and cuts.
2. Most people think breaking the speed limit is the most dangerous form of driving.
3. Only traffic police will have this power.
4. You will still have the right to a court trial if you disagree.
1. Prosecutions for bad driving have fallen dramatically due to political pressure and cuts.
2. Most people think breaking the speed limit is the most dangerous form of driving.
3. Only traffic police will have this power.
4. You will still have the right to a court trial if you disagree.
- myglaren
- Forum Admin Team
- Posts: 25367
- Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 13:30
- Location: Washington
- My Cars: Mazda 6
Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX - x 4889
I think that it is a good idea too to prosecute bad and dangerous driving over minor speeding infingements.
As said it is possibly reliant on the judgement of individual officers BUT with the prevalence of in car cameras then there should be a record of the offence able to be used as evidence should the offence be disputed. Valuable for both parties.
Tailgating is already an offence that attracts fines and points. The average speed cameras are supposed to be able to detect and record offences.
As said it is possibly reliant on the judgement of individual officers BUT with the prevalence of in car cameras then there should be a record of the offence able to be used as evidence should the offence be disputed. Valuable for both parties.
Tailgating is already an offence that attracts fines and points. The average speed cameras are supposed to be able to detect and record offences.
-
- Sara Watson's Stalker
- Posts: 7098
- Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
- Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
- My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147 - x 93
Coming from the country with (yes, really) the most laws in the world my opinion differs.
Laws are a response to a lack of respect and courtesy. You cannot legislate these aspects back into society! If resentment starts at the top and trickles down, all one is doing with new penalties, is ultimately increasing dysfunction. What we consider it acceptable to do, when nobody is looking, nor shall they find out, is a better measure of where a society is at - and frankly, most people contrive any number of excuses to avoid looking squarely into the mirror.
As for defending yourself:
Myself and at least three friends have been in the past subject to unreasonable prosecutions. Mine was withdrawn (back when I was too green to understand my rights to approach the magistrate and request costs), a friend won with costs awarded, another friend was persistently harrassed into pleading guilty and yet another is still in process. That's the reality of ordinary people having to defend the unreasonable - don't forget the time and lost work this entails.
Laws are a response to a lack of respect and courtesy. You cannot legislate these aspects back into society! If resentment starts at the top and trickles down, all one is doing with new penalties, is ultimately increasing dysfunction. What we consider it acceptable to do, when nobody is looking, nor shall they find out, is a better measure of where a society is at - and frankly, most people contrive any number of excuses to avoid looking squarely into the mirror.
As for defending yourself:
Myself and at least three friends have been in the past subject to unreasonable prosecutions. Mine was withdrawn (back when I was too green to understand my rights to approach the magistrate and request costs), a friend won with costs awarded, another friend was persistently harrassed into pleading guilty and yet another is still in process. That's the reality of ordinary people having to defend the unreasonable - don't forget the time and lost work this entails.
This bit made me chuckle, 80mph on the motorways is a good idea, a lot of people do that already; but in my experience people think the speed limit on country roads is 35 mph, regardless of how wide and clear the road is.Plans for an 80mph speed limit for motorways and reduced speeds on country roads are not included in the legislation, but are part of ongoing plans.
Would this also mean being fined for the odd times when you can't help but do something annoying?
Citroen Xantia Exclusive HDi
previously:
Citroen ZX Volcane - RIP
Peugeot 106 XN... stolen and destroyed by Kent Police
previously:
Citroen ZX Volcane - RIP
Peugeot 106 XN... stolen and destroyed by Kent Police
the idea of the rules of the road are/should be so everyone know what the other person/drive is going to do,
now it seems in the UK no one knows or has a clue what the other road user is about to do,
as they dont seem to be taught any rules anymore,
dont get me started
also Adam
the reason most people hear ignore the rules/laws, is because no one trusts the lieing theaving bloated blutacrates who are spozed to be leading us,
regards malcolm
now it seems in the UK no one knows or has a clue what the other road user is about to do,
as they dont seem to be taught any rules anymore,
dont get me started
also Adam
the reason most people hear ignore the rules/laws, is because no one trusts the lieing theaving bloated blutacrates who are spozed to be leading us,
regards malcolm
Not being funny but undertaking is not always bad driving but is usually casued by bad driving... it usually happens on dual carriage ways and mways as they sit there pootling along and won't move over.
I travel a lot of miles on the motorways every year both for work and personal and the amount of people not only sitting in the middle lane when the inside one is empty at 5 am or even the outside lane is shocking.
If they wanted to fine people for dangerous driving in these circumstances then why not fine both parties as if the one being undertaken was driving correctly in a lot of cases there would be no undertaking...
I travel a lot of miles on the motorways every year both for work and personal and the amount of people not only sitting in the middle lane when the inside one is empty at 5 am or even the outside lane is shocking.
If they wanted to fine people for dangerous driving in these circumstances then why not fine both parties as if the one being undertaken was driving correctly in a lot of cases there would be no undertaking...
- Paul-R
- Donor 2023
- Posts: 6916
- Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
- Location: Wirral, NW England; Vaucluse 84, France
- Lexia Available: Yes
- My Cars: 2015 1.6 Blue HDi 120 Peugeot 308 Active SW
2013 2.0 HDi 163 C5 Exclusive Tourer
2003 2.0 HDi 110 C5 Exclusive Estate (Gone)
2001 2.0 HDi 90 Xsara Estate (Gone) - x 1369
Absolutely!KP wrote:If they wanted to fine people for dangerous driving in these circumstances then why not fine both parties as if the one being undertaken was driving correctly in a lot of cases there would be no undertaking...
But what's the betting Mr 50mph in the centre lane will escape scot free?
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49532
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6163
- Contact:
He's just the kind of offender they need to target. In common with a load of categories of careless driving I'm not sure the big whack of an OTS Fine and points is the way to go.Paul-R wrote:But what's the betting Mr 50mph in the centre lane will escape scot free?
Much better to have a Dixon of Dock Green type of copper pull him to the side and give him a damm good rollicking and send him on his way with his tail between his legs.
Worked well when I was a nipper..
I reckon that's far more effective for many instances of misconduct that currently attract points and time.
It'll never work though as there's no money in it for the old bill
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
There are several points of interest here.
As far as I know:-
No one in this country can be fined for a motoring offence without either pleading guilty or being found guilty by a court. The current NIP process for speeding offences does this by default.
A traffic officer, with current legislation, cannot find anyone guilty of anything; he can only present evidence to the relevant authorities who then decide whether to proceed with legal action.
Speeding is a black or white offence. You were either exceeding the posted limit or you weren’t. As long as the equipment used is calibrated, etc, there is no argument. Careless driving is many shades of grey depending upon opinion as much as outcome. So is tailgating. Does Highway Code rule 151 encourage it? How close is tailgating? Some is obviously dangerous. Some is less obviously so. If you are travelling in the centre lane of a 3-lane motorway with an adequate gap in front of you and someone pulls into that gap from either lane are you momentarily “guilty” of tailgating? (If the officer sees just that snapshot of your driving and he is having a bad hair day, what defence do you have?)
The undertaking part is also not black or white. I can’t find the right section of the Highway Code but it does advise staying in the same lane even if traffic to the left is flowing more easily. (i.e. undertaking)
On the spot fines? What the same ones as for litter, loutish behaviour? They really worked didn’t they?
Who is going to enforce the laws? The same people who enforce the mobile phone law?
I don’t carry £80 in cash on me and as far as I know there is no legal requirement to do so. I refuse to use a card in this situation and I bet there would be no mobile facilities to do so.
I thought that the era of passing pointless unenforceable legislation had passed, but apparently not.
Rant over.
As far as I know:-
No one in this country can be fined for a motoring offence without either pleading guilty or being found guilty by a court. The current NIP process for speeding offences does this by default.
A traffic officer, with current legislation, cannot find anyone guilty of anything; he can only present evidence to the relevant authorities who then decide whether to proceed with legal action.
Speeding is a black or white offence. You were either exceeding the posted limit or you weren’t. As long as the equipment used is calibrated, etc, there is no argument. Careless driving is many shades of grey depending upon opinion as much as outcome. So is tailgating. Does Highway Code rule 151 encourage it? How close is tailgating? Some is obviously dangerous. Some is less obviously so. If you are travelling in the centre lane of a 3-lane motorway with an adequate gap in front of you and someone pulls into that gap from either lane are you momentarily “guilty” of tailgating? (If the officer sees just that snapshot of your driving and he is having a bad hair day, what defence do you have?)
The undertaking part is also not black or white. I can’t find the right section of the Highway Code but it does advise staying in the same lane even if traffic to the left is flowing more easily. (i.e. undertaking)
On the spot fines? What the same ones as for litter, loutish behaviour? They really worked didn’t they?
Who is going to enforce the laws? The same people who enforce the mobile phone law?
I don’t carry £80 in cash on me and as far as I know there is no legal requirement to do so. I refuse to use a card in this situation and I bet there would be no mobile facilities to do so.
I thought that the era of passing pointless unenforceable legislation had passed, but apparently not.
Rant over.
MJM
1999 Dante red Xantia Exclusive 2,0 petrol. No smelly diesel for me. Now re-homed
2007 Wicked Red C5 Exclusive. Now a smelly diesel automatic for me.
1999 Dante red Xantia Exclusive 2,0 petrol. No smelly diesel for me. Now re-homed
2007 Wicked Red C5 Exclusive. Now a smelly diesel automatic for me.