SPHERES,.. how long are they good for? how do you test them?

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Ozzie Kuma
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SPHERES,.. how long are they good for? how do you test them?

Post by Ozzie Kuma »

Hi,

SPHERES,.. how long are they good for?
how do you test them?
do they have to come off the car?
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Post by CitroJim »

On the shelf, spheres can last for years and years without appreciable pressure loss. Keep them cool and dry.

On the car they have a finite life as the diaphragm is under stress. If you leave the car on low, flat on it's belly when out of use for a reasonable time they'll last longer too.

Heat reduces their life.

They can be tested with one of these:

Image

This is my homebrew sphere tester. Basically it's an old pump and pressure regulator from a sinker Xantia with a pressure gauge attached to the output of the regulator. The pump is spun by hand until the gauge will rise no more and the reading is then an indication of the sphere pressure.

A tester is not hard to build. I knocked up the one in the picture in a day. The difficult bit is interfacing the 4.5mm pipe to the pressure gauge. I made a brass adapter for this and brazed it to the end of the pipe.

They do have to be removed for testing.

A pressure tester is worth it's weight in gold and is the hydraulic equivalent of a Lexia.
Jim

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Post by Peter.N. »

For a rough check, see how far each corner bounces, you should have approx 3" - 6" of up and down movement on each corner, the front will be stiffer so will require more effort.

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Post by CitroJim »

Expanding on your checks Peter, the main accumulator can be checked by listening to the interval between pressure regulator ticks when the engine is idling. Anything less than 30s between ticks means the accumulator is a bit low... When the tick occurs this should be accompanied by a quick round of what sounds like a machine gun burst from the pump as it is called on to build pressure again.

Do a bounce test with the engine iding and the rear should be very soft on a Hydractive car, the front softish but less so.

Switch off, close all doors and tailgate and resume bouncing. After 30s (the hydractive timeout when the suspension switches hard) you should hear the electrovalves click and an immediate firming of the suspension. It should go firm but not rock hard. It is possible for the rear corners to rupture on a Hydractive car and be unaware of the fact. If when the system switches it goes absolutely solid, this is a clue that they have.

Anoter test of the main accumulator is to switch off and then immediately sit in the boot. the car will sink and then after about 15-20s rise up again. It will only rise again if there is sufficient reserve of pressure in the main accumulator. A really good one will do it twice.

The above is also a good test of hydraulic health generally.

There is no easy way to test the anti-sink sphere in place but as it's mis-named and is really an auxillary rear brake accumulator it is possible to do a quick test by raising one rear wheel clear of the ground and seeing if the rear brakes will work after the engine has been off for a few minutes. After this time the main-line pressure will have fallen enough to engage the anti-sink valves and if you still have rear brakes then the anti-sink sphere will be holding some pressure. This sphere has nothing to do with preventing sinking and has no influence on ride. They're often overlooked and often found to be flat or ruptured as a result.
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Post by Ozzie Kuma »

Thanks all & again, many thanks Jim, you will have to tell me where to sent the cheque.

I got these results,

* TICK test,.. I got machine gun THEN tick? about 70-80 secs,
* switch engine off, then bounce... front 25 & rear 28 sec, then lock,
* switch engine off, sit in boot ... NO reaction at all ! tried 3 times....( by this time my 6 old daughter was rolling around laughing at me !)

Hummmmm!

I am frustrated because every time I get into the VSX I think, " God this handles GREAT!" not that the V6 is bad but it feels like the nose is sticking up in the air & just not as sure footed,... the V6's ride is smoother than the VSX but they are soooo different.

The V6 handling improves with speed, so I keep telling myself that I'll use the VSX for town & the V6 for country but I still would like to have the V6 to handle like the VSX.

Maybe I'll just get all the spheres done so I know they are all right.

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Post by andmcit »

Fun picture of your daughter, though your last picture reminds me of
what happens when the bonnet is allowed to open more than the bonnet
stay angle!

Image

Ok, mine flew open driving at around 60mph which was genuinely scary
as my vision ahead was completely blocked in the 'White-out' but I've
heard of a bonnet being caught by the wind whilst fully vertical when the
engine was being worked on creating the same outcome = new bonnet and
screen required.
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Post by Citroenmad »

Its generally regarded that 3 years or 30K miles is a suitable lifespan for spheres, at that they should still be fairly good and able to recharge if you so wanted. However spheres can last much longer and still give a good ride. If you leave the cars parked in low when they are not to be used then this will preserve them a little. Some cars were also fitted with the tripple diaphragm and these last much longer.

As for the bonnet, it is very handy that the Xantia does that, though always best to secure it back so it doesnt take off your head :shock:
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Post by addo »

The CCC has a sphere tester which I often avail myself of (in conjunction with its keeper) - seems a darned sight easier than making up a tool that one uses every six to twelve months, which otherwise clutters the shed. Ditto on the regassing.

After a disappointing experience with aftermarket accumulator spheres, I am back to Citroën in preference. Our OP might like to note, however, the services of Chris on TradeMe, as he sells aftermarket spheres (IFHS from memory) quite decently priced in pairs.

One thing I like about modern spheres generally, is that many seem to have urethane diaphragms, meaning (theoretically; yet to prove) they can be employed on red fluid cars.
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Post by Peter.N. »

I think I used to get around 60k from my XM spheres, that was done in only a couple of years though, I don't do that sort of mileage now so they seem to last forever.

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Post by Ozzie Kuma »

andmcit,.. I had a bonnet fly up on me on my ID many years ago with very little drama associated, in fact I was amazed,.. one of the truly innovative things on the ID & DS models was that with both front & rear open the driver still had a high level of vision,.. shame Citroen has had to conform & style to suit the bottom line & dispence with such inovations.

On my ID I had recently had an acco hence the catch didn't line up, what happen to your Xantia???

As for chopping my daughter's head off, I have a strap which holds the bonnet up.....


Image
Image

Image

addo, .. so you suggest / recommend Citroen spheres,.. my aren't ? how does one tell ? and if I invest in Cit spheres can I keep them by servicing them for the life of the car ?
So, if I go into Continental @ Punchbowl & say "replace all the spheres with originals", what sort of cost am I looking at? or is there something the CCC can do which is just as good.
Yes I am a member now but this stuff doesn't exactly jump out at you on the web site..!
The objective is to get as close to original with the ride/suspension as possible & put in quality bits so I don't have to worry about it in the middle of nowhere.
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Post by addo »

You don't need to go near Bill and Greg unless you actually want to.

Xantias are "old" in the eyes of Citroën dealers now, and they are generally quite happy for non-franchised agents to make repairs. Genuine spheres can also be bought from McC's in Chatswood or via my personal contact in Wagga.

The club person to speak with is Bruce E; can't remember his exact title but he may be found in the club mag - call him (and be prepared for a long chat). He has the regassing rig normally, and also a pressure tester.
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Post by Citroenmad »

In theory you should be able to regas spheres indefinitely, so long as the minimum required 15-20 bar remains in the spheres before re-pressuring.

Genuine Citroen units are generally regarded the best, though most after-market ones seem very reasonable and are much cheaper.


Very good idea with the bonnet strap, windscreens can be replaced, heads less so!
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Post by Clogzz »

Ian Robinson used to re-gas my spheres.
The rear spheres need re-gassing every two years.
If not, they will go flat first, and into the bin next. :mrgreen:
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Post by VertVega »

CitroJim wrote:... the main accumulator can be checked by listening to the interval between pressure regulator ticks when the engine is idling. Anything less than 30s between ticks means the accumulator is a bit low...
It was long ago when I checked the intervals and last weekend checked it.
Four consecutive readings of 24 secs made me buy a new accumulator :lol: Thanks CitroJim 8-)
There were no symptoms or anything wrong with the suspension or the brakes :?
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Post by Xaccers »

VertVega wrote:
CitroJim wrote:... the main accumulator can be checked by listening to the interval between pressure regulator ticks when the engine is idling. Anything less than 30s between ticks means the accumulator is a bit low...
It was long ago when I checked the intervals and last weekend checked it.
Four consecutive readings of 24 secs made me buy a new accumulator :lol: Thanks CitroJim 8-)
There were no symptoms or anything wrong with the suspension or the brakes :?
If the pump is being turned then you won't notice a flat acc sphere while driving.
Its when your aux belt snaps that you find out you have no brakes! *eeeeek*
Over here, many cars with "full dealer service history" have totally flat accumulator spheres (there's one at the back on anti-sink cars to give the rear brakes pressure if the pump stops) as they don't affect the ride of the car.
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DIY sphere tool
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