WVO / SVO / Biodiesel / Diesel question

[voodoo101]

Firstly, sorry if this question has been asked before. I have read numourous pages on this and seem to get more and more confused.

I have a Synergie 1.9d (my first diesel) and with the growing cost of fuel was looking at alternatives.

At the moment I have seen that you can blend new vegetable oil with diesel and run the engine with no problems. I have also noticed that you have to tell the VAT man and then pay VAT on the oil. I have found vegetable oil on the net at about £1 per litre plus the VAT and the worry about problems it may cause then it looses it's appeal.

Waste vegetable oil is going to be a lot cheaper but then I assume that it has to be filtered and then the water removed and left for months. The problem is I have no room to store it with another car sat in the garage.

Now to Biodiesel. This I assume is vegetable oil with other chemicals but apart from that I know nothing else.

Is there any easy, cheap way to do this. Is there any place where you can just pull in, fill up, pay the money and drive off.

Has anybody on this forum had any dealings with alternative fuels? Apart from having to replace the fuel filter and making sure that it has a bosch pump, what other problems can it cause? Which is the best option and are the benifits worth it?

[Chlorate]

The forum here is full of alternative fuel users

Actually you don't have to pay fuel duty on vegetable oil (new or waste) or biodiesel until you've used 2500 litres of the stuff in a year. Otherwise Mr Tax Man doesn't need to know. Apparently the duty on it is only 20p a litre even then:
These Thievin' B*ggers say it's ok.

Edit:
Although I should mention that it would probably be a good idea to keep a record of how much veggie oil you've used as fuel just in case the aforementioned Thievin' B*ggers ask you to prove it...
/Edit

There are people out there who sell waste veggie oil for fuel, they've done all the mucky business of collecting, filtering and drying for you for a cost of about £0.50 a litre sometimes. Well worth looking into.

Biodiesel is a bit of a pain to make and doesn't save you too much money unless you can get a really cheap source of veggie oil and can make the reactor yourself.
But to be honest the XUD lump in your Synergie will run veggie oil straight without much trouble anyway.

The only other problem I've heard of is that veggie oil can cause accelerated hardening of seals in the fuel pump, although there's conflicting accounts of how long it takes for it to actually start leaking.

Good time of the year to start using veggie oil though, not so many lumpy starts

I think that's all...

-Alex

[citronut]

i think you are leagaly allowed to use so many thousand litres a year before paying anything to HM Customs,

there is talk of this on here,


regards malcolm

[myglaren]

You also need to carry several spare fuel filters and change them often when starting with veg oil.

Always have one in the car as the veg oil will soften the deposits in the tank left by conventional diesel and it will clog the filters in fairly short order.
This symptom diminishes with time but you should always have a spare filter in the car.

It will also clog the in tank strainer which should be examined and cleaned regularly for the first few months of veg use.

[voodoo101]

Thanks for all your help. It's looking more promising now.

Just to clarify, I can buy used vegetable oil and pour it in the fuel tank but blend it with diesel. What is the best blend 50 / 50 or can I use more oil?

Does anybody know of a good place to get the used oil from all ready to go in the Portsmouth / Fareham area? I don't mind buying a bit more in bulk if I can get it delivered.

How hard is it to change the fuel strainer in a synergie? I love working on cars but getting a bit old know

[myglaren]

I wouldn't go pouring waste Veg. oil straight into your tank.
Straight veg oil (SVO) - that is fresh unused oil from the supermarket, Costco, Makro or wherever is generally fine but increase the blend and see if your engine is happy with it. Start out with 80/20 and increase the veg/decrease the dino 20% with each fillup.

Waste veg oil (WVO) needs filtering, settling and the water out of it.
Hang on a bit and some of the others will have a chance to chime in, there are proponents of both flavours. Have a rake through some of the (not so old) threads here for further discussions on the subject.

Don't just dive in with both feet, take some time to gain some knowledge and perspectives.

Getting the strainer out isn't that bad. There will be a plastic cap about 6" in diameter under the back seat that will give you access to a seal on the top of the fuel tank.

You will need to disconnect the several pipes and electrical connectors from the seal and secure them - string or cable ties are the usual.

Then remove the securing ring, which can be a bit of a challenge to do without distorting it. Some have made a tool to do this with but many find that a large screwdriver on the lugs, tapped sideways a bit at a time and moving around the lugs until it frees will do the trick, then extract the strainer and wash with petrol.

They can be absolutely disgusting as there are various fungal and bacterial growths known to thrive on diesel and make an unholy mess in the tank.

Just be absolutely certain that you have a Bosch pump before embarking on this venture.
If it isn't it will soon be boshed anyway, not in a nice way

[Chlorate]

50/50 is a good place to start, I just pour it straight into the tank then pump a bit of diesel on top if I feel like it.

In warmer weather you can get away with using quite a lot of veggie, I know some members of the forum regularly run their XUD Xantiae on 100% veggie oil, but see what your engine likes.

[scratcher]

Be careful where you collect from, some take away outlets use a lot of sugar in their cooking, not good for burning in cars.

[voodoo101]

Thank you all for your help.

Just got to find a local place that will supply me with WVO already filtered and I'm ready to save money and the planet

You would have thought, with the government telling people to recycle everything and with global warming, then they would be pushing used vegetable oil as a viable alternative. Supposed it is harder to claim the tax on it and the oil companies would be complaining. All about what they can tax the poor motorist for after all.

[Xaccers]

Voodoo make damn sure you have a bosch fuel pump!

[citroenxm]

Ditto Xacs point..

Be VERY sure you have got a Bosch Fuel pump and NOT a Lucas pump, or else you will be rebuilding the Fuel pump VERY shortley...

We all know that 98% of Xantia TD's were bosch fitted when the 1.9 is in them..ive yet to see a Lucas 1.9 TD in a Xantia.. the other 2% Ive left for Lucas EPIC on the 2.1 ONLY engines..

No idea the Pump format on the Synergye/Uylessye machine..

Paul

[voodoo101]

Once again thanks for all the help.

Next question, how do I find out the make of the fuel pump?

[Spaces]

XUDs are great for plant oil, as said above the Bosch pump is ideal. Lucas a no go unless you start and stop on diesel. Use a flat plate heat exchanger to preheat the fuel, whichever way. Diesel is quite filthy stuff compared with plant (vegetable) oils, but using new makes no sense on cost or moral grounds. GM Soya oil is prevalent in England but is raping third world communities. Rapeseed oil works much better in the engine and doesn't decimate rural communities - well worth going the extra mile for. Add 10% diesel (because the additives to make such a nasty fuel work well go a long way) and thin with up to 10% petrol down to -20C. Pay up to 20p a litre direct for (really good) waste oil, or up to 50ppl from a dealer. Top 90% should be clear. Water and fats naturally settle to the bottom.

For drying and filtering (and everything else) there is a superb UK forum which the rest of the world uses here: http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php

[Northern_Mike]

I've run a variety of XUD motors on SVO, never had a problem in over 100,000 miles. ZX TD loved the stuff. I got better fuel economy and the engine *seemed* smoother and quieter. Both my XM 2.1TDs ran happily on the stuff, as did my two Xantia TDs. I even ran one on SVO in the winter, it was ok, but took a couple of goes to start, and grumbled for the first couple of miles.

The only problem I found was that a trolley full of 20 3 litre Oil bottles from Tesco weighs a lot and it hard work to push in an uphill car park, and I used to get people come to talk to me while I stood in Tesco car park pouring them into the tank. Once I'd filled the car up, I'd dump them straight in the recycling bin in the car park..

Not quite as convenient as filling up with diesel, but a damn sight cheaper - or it was then, before everyone cottoned on and 3 litres of veg was £1.25 in Tesco..

[MTND]

I have a Synergie 1.9d (my first diesel) and with the growing cost of fuel was looking at alternatives.

Hi Voodoo101

I found a good alterative to diesel as the cost of fuel has gone up so much.
I would worry about putting anything but the best in my Xantia 1.9TD as I want to be able to keep it for as long as possible and the long term side effects of the different fuels doesn't seem good.
The alterative I have found is to buy a good bike and use bike and bus as much as possible!
My round trip to work each day in Cambridge is about 45 miles and the bus fare is £2 each way!!! This would compare with the nearly Gallon of diesel at £6.50 and the servicing and wear and tear on my car, plus I get exercise as well
I keep the milage down on the car each year which makes a difference on the insurance cost and I then just use it for journeys where I can enjoy driving my car at the weekends or for longer days out!

What do you think, look after your car, give it a easier life, make it last longer and save at the same time?

Regards
Mark