its got a pulse, but its not breathing!

the jester · Unread post by **the jester** » 14 Apr 2011, 13:04

i have my xud9 in my talbot express,
i have the wiring sorted i think, using the 406 glow plug relay.

ive tested and am getting 12 v to the fuel stop solenoid
im getting 12 v to the relay
im getting 12 to the glow plus

all when i turn the ignition key

it turns over and is giving a few resounding chugs with accomanying smoke ( its not on fire-ive checked)

but then nothing

ive tried moving the pump( a replacement from a 306 TD)within the fitting brackets as i learned the old one had an electronic advance( twas fitted with the timing gear bolted in place from the previous bosch pump)

still chugs a bit.

i should point out im trying to start this with the turbo off the engine( its geting some work done.

any suggestions how i should proceed to make it run?
I am a newbie( as if you cant tell by now) to diesels so laymans/idiot terms please

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 14 Apr 2011, 14:19

Hi -

Its never idiotic to learn ...

I'd say leave the turbo out of the party for now.
The engine will start and run perfectly w/o the turbo.
Its just the engine power under load that will suffer.

There are basically 2 things to be fulfilled for a diesel to start and run :

1) adequate engine compression
2) adequate fuel injected at correct timing

The rest is more or less refinement stuff to better the start conditions, optimize power and reduce emissions.

First off I'd check the glowplugs.
They MUST check out as an ohmic shortcircuit to engine earth when cold.
No more than some 0.8 ohms.
If they are Hi-resistance (i.e. 1 ohm or more), they will NEVER glow hot enough to ignite the air-fuel mixture.
Literally they must glow white when in action like a bulb.
Red hot glow is nonsens.
(dont try it out in free air, as the hot plug is very dangerous causing SERIOUS burns)

Next I'd look deep into suspect air leaks in the fuel supply.
Air in a diesel fuel supply system causes instant death to the engine, as firstly the pump fuel volume regulator goes haywock and secondly the suction side of the pump suffers badly.

Thirdly it may be necessary to bleed the rigid pipes leading to each injector. Be careful not to damage the piping, they are easily overstressed on the unions.
The pipe unions should be torqued firmly, but never violently.

As a last resort - you should find a TDC locating hole on the cylinder head.
Usually a "mysterious" bolt with a seal washer next to glowplug # 1 at the cambelt end.
This hole is for gauging the piston at TDC in the compression cycle.
On the pump there is a similar gauging hole for the pump timing when feeding injector # 1.
Its all described in very good details in haynes manual no 1379 for the 1.9 XUD family.
There is also a later manul covering PSA diesels in general.

I've seen quite a few of both manuals going on Ebay.

the jester · Unread post by **the jester** » 14 Apr 2011, 15:17

many thanks for that

very informative

i assuem the glowplugs are ok, as i drove the car home when i bought it , then pulled the engine, i do plan to replace 'em before i bolt up all the intercooler pipework .

you hit the nail on the head ( i hope) with the bleeding the pipes . i just plumbed it up, squeezed the bulb and gave it a whirl

ill give that a go

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 14 Apr 2011, 15:20

Have you fitted a Lucas pump in place of the Bosch? If so did you change the pipes as well?

Peter

the jester · Unread post by **the jester** » 14 Apr 2011, 15:39

nope, swapped bosch for bosch

bolted the cam wheel in place,
marked the position of the pump
need not have bothered as when i took of the old one there was a lovely clean bit left in the shape of the plate

put in the new one.

squeezed the bulb a fair bit
theres no vissible bubbles, and the bulb is gone pretty hard.

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 14 Apr 2011, 15:44

Reluctance to start is usually due to the timing being retarded, assuming the belt isn't a tooth out, you could as an experiment try advancing the pump. If you have smoke from the exhaust there must be fuel going in. If its over advanced it will knock like crazy.

Peter

the jester · Unread post by **the jester** » 14 Apr 2011, 15:50

moving the top of the pump towards the head... advancing or retarding

i also wondered if i skipped a tooth when fitting, dont think i did, but it had crossed my mind

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 14 Apr 2011, 17:10

I'm just thinking .............. opposite direction to pump rotation, Yes, that's advance.

the jester · Unread post by **the jester** » 15 Apr 2011, 21:25

it lives!!

i got a gargle thump and brmmmmmm, then it died

plenty of air in the system now , probably the dribble of diesel in the tank, ill chuck some more in and see if i can make it more than a few seconds.

questtion though, are all fuel pumps ,bosch at least, timed the same?

i took onboard the suggestion that i may have slipped a tooth on the belt when swapping the pumps, so i though, ill slip it a tooth to advance and give it a whirl, was abit more chuggy, thought what the hell ill go another one, bit better still

it was four teeth round it fired and ran

it certainly didnt slip 4 teeth when swapping the pumps

I have a diesel mechanic doing a house call next week, to sort it properly

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 15 Apr 2011, 22:50

Certainly sounds very retarded, I don't know that the pump has that much adjustment.

Peter