Magic carpet? Ice skater? or Death Trap

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CITROEN-SUCKER
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Magic carpet? Ice skater? or Death Trap

Post by CITROEN-SUCKER »

Hi I have a 1993 Xantia 1.9Td SX and to be honest the car scares me the back end feels like it is on ice you really don't feel safe at any speed over 40MPh could this be anything to do with the hydraulics as the height corrector seems to work ok but if the back end goes to maximum it is reluctant to go down and it sits a what seems to be the correct height. i have had the thing off and cleaned it and all seems OK but I'm just not happy with the ride can someone please tell me it is just a rubber bush or something... As a small note this is the 4th Xantia I have owned but the 1st non Hydroactive model
thanks
J.J.
alan s
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Post by alan s »

Have you checked your rear arm bearings?
Sounds to me as though they could be on the way out which will also give some very strange & at times "hairy" handling characteristics.
Alan S
Jon

Post by Jon »

I agree with Alan, sounds like the rear arm bearings may be very worn, as a result the rear wheels are sitting at an angle (that is, only one part of the tyre is making contact with the road) and in turn thise leads to very insecure handling.
Have a look at the rear tyres to see if they are wearing away on one edge.
Then, with the car in the normal running position look at the rear wheels from about 10ft away to see if they are leaning in.
Finally, if all is in order with the rear arm beaings, I'd suggest that the rear suspension height may be too high.
CITROEN-SUCKER
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Post by CITROEN-SUCKER »

hi Thanks for all the help just spent the last few hour's under the car and have the rear height corrector working better than ever but problem still seems to be there... The car goes round corners great but when going in a straight line the back end still feels like jelly How do i check the rear arm bearings as there doesn't seem to be any excess movement any idea's?
thanks
j.j.
adrianeaton
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Post by adrianeaton »

On a BX you'd put the suspension in 'high' and check whether the rear wheels are leaning in. Jon suggests doing this in normal ride height, not sure if there's any difference with the Xantia?
When the car has been sitting for a while do you get any funny 'boings' or cracks from the suspension when you get in it, or does the suspension lurch down when you put some body weight on it after it's been parked for a while? If so, it indicates something isn't moving as freely as it should and the arm bearings are likely to be the cause.
I could understand this effect you mention if you were cornering - might also be worth checking the tyres for dodgy tread. Could be worth swapping front to back just to see if it changes the behaviour in any way.
Cheers
Adrian
jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

Now you've got the rear height corrector working nicely what about testing the spheres?
Start the engine and sit in the boot. The car shaould drop quite a long way as you sit down, then after about 30 secs (or a bit longer), start to rise. When its reached its original height you get of the car and the back should rise, and after 30 secs or so, fall back to its original height.
If the back doesn't compress the back spheres have gone and need replacing.
If your acumulator is good the car should do much the same with the engine stopped. (immediately after stopping) My BX TD estate rises when I fill it with fuel!
How often does your regulator click?
Jeremy
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Post by CITROEN-SUCKER »

Hi thank the accumulator was replaced about 40Mile ago and the rear spheres seem to be ok they perform as they should ... the rear wheels do seem to angle in at the top and have just had the tyres replaced as they had worn on the inner edge but to be honest i thought it might have been the case that the tyres had been swapped from front already... how do i test the are bearings as they don't seem to make any strange noises..
thanks
j.j.
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Post by jeremy »

To be causing the problems you have they must be bad in which case it shouldn't be too difficult to find some slack.
The bearings in question are ball/roller bearings and so there should be no slack, not like a ruber bearing.
I'd suggest you support the rear of the car very well, then start poking around the bearings with a few strong metal bars and see if you can find the slack. On casual inspection the anti-roll bar may hide some of the slack which will then be revealed with some more determined levering.
Jeremy
alan s
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Post by alan s »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by CITROEN-SUCKER</i>

Hi thank the accumulator was replaced about 40Mile ago and the rear spheres seem to be ok they perform as they should ... the rear wheels do seem to angle in at the top and have just had the tyres replaced as they had worn on the inner edge but to be honest i thought it might have been the case that the tyres had been swapped from front already... how do i test the are bearings as they don't seem to make any strange noises..
thanks
j.j.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I wouldn't bother going through the agony of jacking the car up, putting on axle stands & generally having a wrestling match with the rear wheels because with the symptoms you've described (leaning whels & tyres wearing on the insides) the swing arm bearings are either caput or well on their way to collapsing.
Get 'em fixed ASAP before they destroy your rear arms & cost a mint.
Andyspares sell the kits for them from memory & if you're even average at DIY it's not rocket science to replace them.
First one is the worst and will possibly take up to a couple of hours but once you have all the tools handy & with the wisdom of experience with the first, the second one can be as short as 3/4 hour.
If however you need to take it to a garage to be done, be guided by some of the guys on here as regards to potential costs over there.
If any wannabe mechanic starts telling you what a big expensive job it's going to be, keep on walking & find yourself one that has done the job before; it's no gig deal, in fact the kind of job a pro would start at the beginning of the day knowing he'd be finished well before morning tea time.
Alan S
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Post by tomsheppard »

I would go along with that. Having just done the job myself on a BX, all the spooks in the handling ran away and the car's handling and roadholding have been improved far out of proportion to the cost. You'll need a pair of 24 mm spanners and some axle stands. If you can find a 24mm socket, so much the better, you can use it to drive the bearing raceways out. Between the bearings is a plastic tube. cut it away with a stout knife or, if you have one, a hooked stanleyknife blade. Even if all looks perfect, change ALL the parts in the kit. (The replacements are actually slightly different dimensionally!) Two kits cost just under £50. The biggest problem may be bleeding the brakes afterwards. If you round the bleed nipple, all is not yet lost. Get a nut that slips easily over the bleed nipple and have it welded on. This breaks the grip on the thread, and the larger diameter given by the welded on nut provides greater leverage.
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Tom -
The "nutty" method on the bleed nipple is a real good hint [8D]
- yet so simple - never thought on that [:o)]
- tanx mate [^]
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Post by Linegeist »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tomsheppard</i>
If you round the bleed nipple, all is not yet lost. Get a nut that slips easily over the bleed nipple and have it welded on. This breaks the grip on the thread, and the larger diameter given by the welded on nut provides greater leverage.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Wow! 20 years in the trade and I never thought of THAT one! Nice tip. Thanks!! [:)]
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Post by ghostrider »

Good idea that, I still reckon some heat and jarring it using an ally drift might help though although the welding should cover the heat bit ;-)) otherwise you might wind up shearing the top off and then the fun really begins.......
________
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Last edited by ghostrider on 22 Feb 2011, 05:38, edited 1 time in total.
alan s
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Post by alan s »

We often use the welder when removing doors off old CXs...we used to go to the local discount store, buy a few cheap Allem keys of the right size, put them into the hinge bolts, hit them with the MIG, wait to cool & screw them out. This was usually after several hours of twisting, hitting, heating, swearing & usually using this method they came out straight away...good tip for the brakes after seeing & hearing all the other ways with dubious results.
Alan S
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Post by DLM »

You don't have to remove calipers during rear arm bearing replacement + hence bleed rear brakes afterwards - at least on the BX. It is possible to unbolt the calipers, then tie them up unstrained for the duration of the job.
David
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