been here a while but

droylsden dave · Post by **droylsden dave** » 20 Mar 2011, 19:29

Hi gents can you help me out?

In a dilemma as to what to do next. Here goes had a 406 p reg upto feb 09, since i ve had 4 motors and not 1 equalled it. All had good reason for buying and for getting rid of. Bought an 06 punto had it 10 weeks and then got a brand new 09 corsa diesel, had that for 10 months and traded in for an 08 1.8 tdci mondeo(went to dealers 4 times with faults) so june last year traded for a56 plate 1.8 honda civic petrol. Nice car, reliable, stiff suspension, and prob a bit noisier than the mondeo, and getting 38mpg. I do around 175 miles per weekwhich with very bad luck on my behalf i could end up doing 350.

Basically im thinking of reducing outlay(finance on honda more specific) and thought about getting an 02,03,04 plate 406 hdi, because i thought the 1 had previous just never let me down. but i prefer an hatchback and knew nowt about citroens and stumbled upon what a super drive a C5 is, so had a scoot on auto trader and ebay. Could easily get a decent motor for 2500/ £4000.

Obviously ive read about best engine to get and related issues etc, so which should i get a 406 or a C5, working with the following criteria
1)prefer hatchback to saloon - dont like 406 estate btw
2)economical like the idea of getting 50mpgish with hdi engine although dont mind only getting 38 mpg if there are no issues with a C5 petrol engine.
406 previous was a 1.8 petrol and got 36/38 driven with a steady foot.
3)would prefer as new as poss but would like to avoid some of the DMF issues with diesel engines.
I know long winded and i hope you can shed some light on things.

Thanks

wright · Post by **wright** » 20 Mar 2011, 19:55

i have a 02 c5 2.0 110 bhp, i did the clutch a few weeks ago, it was on its original clutch and the flywheel is fine and still on there with 160k on it, every car that has dual mass flywheel on it has trouble with them but i,ve heard of a lot more vw,s and fords needing them replaced, i get 50mpg and wouldn't touch a petrol i find the diesel much nicer to drive

Post by **myglaren** » 20 Mar 2011, 20:32

Moving to French Car Chat

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 20 Mar 2011, 20:58

Welcome to the FCF

I rate the C5s highly, im onto my 3rd HDi C5 now and we have had two C5 estates in the family too. Currently there are 3 C5s in my family.

I have looked at 406s in the past, but as I require a large hatchback the 406 doesn't offer this and I don't want an estate car. I find the C5 perfect for my needs and can not think of a car I would rather own than my C5.

C5s with a petrol engine are worth relatively little compared to the diesels. The 1.8 16v and 2.0 16v are perfectly good engines, I don't now of any issues but then im not really into petrol engines so don't look for problems. The 2.0 HPi (which has a bit more power than the normal 2.0 16v) is the one to be avoided, do not buy a HPI petrol C5, too many problems and you might be stuck with it for life. If you can live with the economy of a 3.0 V6, then they are great engines, though all are mated to an auto box - the V6s are excellent value.

C5s are best fitted with a diesel engine, 50MPG over 30-35 MPG (realistically) for the petrol. However C5 diesels are not just about economy, as I much prefer the drive of a diesel, they sell better and retain value better too. I personally wouldn't consider a petrol one, unless it was a V6 and then only as a second car.

The 2.0HDi 110bhp 8v is often considered the best of the lot, as it does without the FAP filter and they have proven to be very reliable engines. You can also get a solid flywheel to replace the DMF if it goes. So that is my choice in a C5I

However, in a C5II - the facelift - the 2.0HDi 138 is the pick for me, good performance and great economy - better than the 2.0 110 8v. The 1.6 110 has mixed reviews performance wise but im lead to believe both 1.6 and 2.0 16vs are very good and reliable engines - the 2.0 has been great for us, we have two 138s.

All diesel C5s have a DMF, I know some can easily be converted to a solid flywheel though. A DMF is a very common feature on all modern C5s and I can almost guarantee your previous Mondeo (1.8TDCis are awful engines!) and possibly Corsa had then fitted too. If the clutch is used right, not ridden or used on the bite at junctions etc then there is no reason why it shouldn't last.

If your spending around £2500-£3000 then id say go for a 53-54reg 2.0HDi 110 VTR - a nice spec, easy to find and the reliable engine. The earlier VTRs dont have climate, so closer to 04-54 the better.

If your spending up to £4000 you should be able to get a facelift with not too many miles for that.

I have thought about putting a C5 buyers guide on here, but have not yet and im not sure where it would go either. If you need any help with a C5 search, let us know ...

droylsden dave · Post by **droylsden dave** » 20 Mar 2011, 21:28

Many thanks to all replies

Citroenmad i have seen what appear some nice 2.0l 138 cant remember year to have a look at.
What sort of price are we looking at if DMF or parts associated do need replacing?

Many thanks

Post by **myglaren** » 20 Mar 2011, 21:32

droylsden dave wrote:Many thanks to all replies

Citroenmad i have seen what appear some nice 2.0l 138 cant remember year to have a look at.
What sort of price are we looking at if DMF or parts associated do need replacing?

Many thanks

I had my DMF and clutch replaced at 120,000 at a cost of just under £500 IIRC. May have been slightly less.

ETA: Just checked my records and it was indeed £498.

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 20 Mar 2011, 21:39

I've never had to replace one yet, however I believe the bits are around £400, plus labour. I wouldn't let that put you off, as I say, most modern diesels have them now and the PSA DMFs are no less reliable than the others.

In fact the 16v HDi PSA diesels are in a lot of cars, Volvos, Fords, Minis, etc. Very good engines.

droylsden dave · Post by **droylsden dave** » 20 Mar 2011, 21:48

so £500 isnt a figure to be put off by. So if i get an high miler i can budget with that in mind.

Many thanks

Post by **myglaren** » 20 Mar 2011, 21:59

Not everyone will charge you that - the dealer will be significantly more.
I am rather spoiled in having a Citroen enthusiastic independent that still offers very reasonable rates.

As it happened it was a misdiagnoses (by the dealer as my guy was a bit stumped by the problem) and turned out to be a dud injector. The DMF and clutch were very close to EOL and would have needed doing around now or very soon in the future.

Not an out of the way price as a clutch generally costs around £350 on it's own.

Genuine Valeo parts fitted too.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 21 Mar 2011, 08:09

my freind has just had a service, DMF and clutch fitted to his 08 long wheel base Realay by the local dealer, all in for £1700 quid

,

i think i have convinced him not to go there again,

shame i cant get it into my workshop as i could do with that sort of dosh

,

regards malcolm

Post by **DHallworth** » 21 Mar 2011, 08:36

If you want a lovely 406 HDi, I'm selling mine with a genuine 47k miles on the clock. 4 new Michelin tyres, complete new exhaust system, drives lovely and does 750 miles to a tank of Diesel.

It's a 99 V reg saloon but is a D9 facelift model.

David.

vince · Post by **vince** » 22 Mar 2011, 07:32

I love Citroens overall more than Peugeots and sell car parts for a living.

Apart from selling fuel pumps for both of these models (C5's less than 406's) and DMF's for both, Id personally buy a 406 and trade in the ride quality for "less things to go wrong" if you are looking to ease budgets.

The 406 is a good car (as is the C5) but as with everything, if you can find either model from someone on here then all the better as we generaly tend to look after our cars moreso than joe public on autotrader.

It puzzles me why people tend to migrate toward newer cars though ..there are so many older models which are more reliable and certainly cheaper to fix if things go wrong. Thats just me though...i like older stuff

droylsden dave · Post by **droylsden dave** » 22 Mar 2011, 16:04

vince wrote:I love Citroëns overall more than Peugeots and sell car parts for a living.

Apart from selling fuel pumps for both of these models (C5's less than 406's) and DMF's for both, Id personally buy a 406 and trade in the ride quality for "less things to go wrong" if you are looking to ease budgets.

The 406 is a good car (as is the C5) but as with everything, if you can find either model from someone on here then all the better as we generaly tend to look after our cars moreso than joe public on autotrader.

It puzzles me why people tend to migrate toward newer cars though ..there are so many older models which are more reliable and certainly cheaper to fix if things go wrong. Thats just me though...i like older stuff

Certainly agree. I would be inclined to go for a 406 as i know not everything about them but have a good feel of how they perform. My 406 had 145k on clock when i got it (p reg 10 years old),just had clutch changed. i had it 3 years the only thing that went was coil pack. 3 years i did 25k and just drove brill. The door seals did need doing but ... I did have cambelt and water pump and all pulley associated changed. Plus brakes done, it never let me down though.
I dont like the look of 406 estates so thats why im looking at a C5, for the smooth drive.

Post by **CitroJim** » 22 Mar 2011, 16:22

If you want a good workhorse than the 406 is a belter. My lad has a 406 2.1TD and he's erm, not the most caring owner...

However it just keeps going and going and going...

It's just a shame the 406 has such awful suspension. Maybe it's OK but after a hydraulic Citroen it's akin to riding around in a wheelbarrow...

Apart from that, I recommend them highly... Excellent cars.

Chris570 · Post by **Chris570** » 22 Mar 2011, 17:06

Sig'd