Basic Car Moving Questions (Legality, Options, Obligations)

This is the place for posts that don't fit into any other category.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147
x 93

Basic Car Moving Questions (Legality, Options, Obligations)

Post by addo »

I'm looking at a UK donor car to be (rapidly) dissected for spares then shipped as parts. The prospect has MOT but no mention of tax.

If my agent-designate were to buy it, would he/they be able to drive it to the place of dismantling without further costs (fees), or must it be towed?

Would it be smarter to make the bill of sale to myself or the "man on the ground"? I need to essentially do this by the book, but without throwing away money.

Thanks for any helpful advice on this.

Cheers, Adam.
User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 9053
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 22:03
Location: France or NewZealand
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: -
1997 Citroen Xantia V6 (France)
1999 Citroen XM V6 ES9 (France)
2011 Peugeot 308 CC THP 155 (NZ)
1975 Jaguar XJ-S pre-HE (NZ)
x 825

Post by xantia_v6 »

In general, you can't drive it anywhere (or even park it on the road) without Tax.

You can often get a good price for moving a car at Shiply. You might also get a quote for moving pallets of parts to your chosen port of lading.
xmexclusive
Posts: 419
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 22:50
Location:
My Cars:

Post by xmexclusive »

Hi Addo

With the car Reg No a prospective buyer can check the DVLA web site for tax liability date. This will tell you if the car has current tax. Under our new rules a taxed car requires insurance even if off the road. To be towed a car must also comply with these rules.
If you buy and intend to flat bed the car it has to be declared SORN on purchase. Any existing SORN by the previous owner is automatically cancelled by sale or transfer of the car to a new owner. If flatbedding ensure that they remove or put put black tape over the number plates. ANPR cameras are happy to read any position of number plate so why invite nonsense untaxed/uninsured fine paperwork.

John
Xmexclusive
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

as xantia_v6 says but it can be towed with one axle off the ground,

or if the driver has insurance he can get round the law (stretch )by bookiing it in for a MOT at/near the place he is driveing it to :wink:


regards malcolm
HDI
Posts: 1468
Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 15:46
Location: West Mids
My Cars:
x 7

Post by HDI »

The only other option is that it can be moved on trade plates without tax or mot but must be insured.
Now using '00 Xantia LX HDI, pov spec :(
My past Citroens :-
'00 Xantia SX HDI, now dead due to accident :(
'99 Xantia HDI 110 Exclusive, RIP :(
'97 Xantia TD SX
'96 Xantia TD LX
'96 ZX TD
'89 BX TD
'88 AX GT
'79 CX2400 Pallas (scrapped :( )
& a couple of Peugeots !
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

the driver has to have insurance to cover them to drive that vheical,


you can't declare SORN untill you have the new V5C registerd in your name, as to declare SORN you need the reference No. from the reg document (V5C )after registerd to you, SORN is not transferable,


as long as you have insurance cover to drivce said vheical you are allowed to drive to and from the MOT station, and to and from a place the MOT work is to be carried out,



regards malcolm
addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147
x 93

Post by addo »

Thanks - a great range of useful information (and somewhat mind-boggling to the unfamiliar). So... You have to complete the V5C/SORN paperwork before even moving the car? :shock:

The two workarounds being an insured driver (can that be a cover note?) notionally heading to an MOT station, or flatbedding the car with plates removed then filing the transfer/SORN on the soonest convenient day?

The car in question probably won't happen, but I'm all ears for dealing with the next "right one".
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25367
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 13:30
Location: Washington
My Cars: Mazda 6
Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX
x 4889

Post by myglaren »

There is, or was, an option for vehicles being exported on the V5.
You would need confirmation from the DVLA or VOSA before committing to any action that may otherwise be illegal but there could be a workaround.

Trade plates look a good option if any are available as the trader in question would have insurance for moving vehicles around. A simpler option that circumvents the need to MOT, tax and insure for one journey.
Homer
Posts: 1503
Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 10:52
Location: Yorkshire
My Cars: Current:
Volvo V60 D4 180

Previous:
BX16RS (two of),
BX19TZI,
Xantia 2.0i saloon,
Xantia 2.0 Exclusive CT turbo Break,
Peugeot 807 2.0 HDi 110,
Renault Grand Scenic, 2.0 diesel (150bhp)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi 160 which put me off French cars possibly forever
x 16

Post by Homer »

addo wrote:
The two workarounds being an insured driver (can that be a cover note?) notionally heading to an MOT station,
If there is no insurance which refers to the car then you risk being stopped and the car impounded until you sort out the legality of driving it under whatever policy you are using, unless you use trade plates. I believe trade plates are only valid if being used in conjunction with that traders business.

I believe current legislation requires insurance specific to the car regardless.
addo wrote: Would it be smarter to make the bill of sale to myself or the "man on the ground"?
UK law pays little regard to who owns a vehicle, it is the registered keeper who is responsible. Not sure, but I don't think a RK can be a foreign national. Certainly wouldn't make any sense to be able to register it to a foreign address.
addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147
x 93

Post by addo »

Struth. I haven't paid the £800+ for a red passport because it seemed like a WOFTAM; however you may have exposed one of its benefits...
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

you can drive a vhehical if you havew a motor trade road risck insurance policy, this way the car does not need to be on that policy,

also if a car was being permanently exported you just send the yellow slip from the V5C reg document to DVLA,


you can move a vheical about without/before transfering the SORN declaration,

because untill DVLA update the ownership it can still be under the previous owners SORN declaration,


regards malcolm
xmexclusive
Posts: 419
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 22:50
Location:
My Cars:

Post by xmexclusive »

The enforcement for use of the MOT trip provision is being extended to DVLA auto camera vehicle reg spotting against subequent actual MOT record checks. So the dodge of booking a MOT, move the car then cancel the MOT will be closed. These checks will also start to show long distance drives to MOT station. It has always been a convictable offence to drive an unfit vehicle to and from MOT.
On insurance it is not possible to use any provision on your insurance to drive another car not owned by you unless that car is also insured by its owner. Many policies are now mentioning this specifically.
I agree with citronut that a Motortrader is exempt much of the DVLA reporting rules for business activities and with an employment based insurance policy has very different insurance conditions compared to the mormal policies.

John
Xmexclusive
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Post by MikeT »

xmexclusive wrote:On insurance it is not possible to use any provision on your insurance to drive another car not owned by you unless that car is also insured by its owner.
Since buying my first insurance decades back, 3rd party only cover for other cars not belonging to me has always been included with fully comprehensive cover. It's come in handy on many occasions - test driving cars for sale, having a go in a friends car, sharing driving duties, etc, etc.

A couple of years back, I was driving a car not registered to me and got tugged by an ANPR patrol for it was showing not insured. They checked my policy and were satisfied I was insured while I was driving it, though they did point out it was not covered once I got out, meaning I could not park it on a public highway (which is possibly how this condition has been misinterpreted?) I was released and allowed to drive the car away.

If the traffic police don't know the law, I don't know who does.

I can't remember the reason except I was nervous of comeback so when I got home, I called my insurers to double check my cover and was shocked to be told, as you state, it has to be already insured for my cover to be valid.

I insisted this was wrong - how can it state one thing on my policy (a legally binding document) yet have unmentioned conditions attached? - and demanded it be clearly put in writing. After asking her colleagues, she was still adamant I was not covered nor did she accept it should be made clear on the policy! But finally, after seeking advice from a senior (or legal) team member, she confirmed I was indeed covered and she was mistaken. Phew!

Having said that, this year is the first time I've bought FC cover which does not include 3rd party only cover for other vehicles not belonging to me though it's also the first time I've used SwiftCover.
pug_owner2002
Posts: 288
Joined: 27 Feb 2005, 21:05
Location: Telford.
My Cars:
x 3

Post by pug_owner2002 »

MikeT wrote:
xmexclusive wrote:On insurance it is not possible to use any provision on your insurance to drive another car not owned by you unless that car is also insured by its owner.
Since buying my first insurance decades back, 3rd party only cover for other cars not belonging to me has always been included with fully comprehensive cover. It's come in handy on many occasions - test driving cars for sale, having a go in a friends car, sharing driving duties, etc, etc.

A couple of years back, I was driving a car not registered to me and got tugged by an ANPR patrol for it was showing not insured. They checked my policy and were satisfied I was insured while I was driving it, though they did point out it was not covered once I got out, meaning I could not park it on a public highway (which is possibly how this condition has been misinterpreted?) I was released and allowed to drive the car away.

If the traffic police don't know the law, I don't know who does.

I can't remember the reason except I was nervous of comeback so when I got home, I called my insurers to double check my cover and was shocked to be told, as you state, it has to be already insured for my cover to be valid.

I insisted this was wrong - how can it state one thing on my policy (a legally binding document) yet have unmentioned conditions attached? - and demanded it be clearly put in writing. After asking her colleagues, she was still adamant I was not covered nor did she accept it should be made clear on the policy! But finally, after seeking advice from a senior (or legal) team member, she confirmed I was indeed covered and she was mistaken. Phew!

Having said that, this year is the first time I've bought FC cover which does not include 3rd party only cover for other vehicles not belonging to me though it's also the first time I've used SwiftCover.
It's always been stated on all my other policys that the 3rd party cover for other vehicles was for vehicles that are not owned by me and is covered on a policy by the owner of the vehicle.
Mike, Interesting that you havn't got the 3rd party cover with swiftcover. When I read your post I quickly logged into "My Swiftspace" to double check that I wasn't dreaming that I had got it. Thankfully I have as it states "The policyholder may also drive with the owner's permission a car not owned by the policyholder and not hired to the policyholder under a hire purchase or annual leasing agreement and is not used in connection with the motor trade. This is provided the owner of the car has valid insurance in force on that car but which does not cover the policyholder of this Policy to drive that car.". I always make sure I have this aspect of cover just incase I ever need to drive my parents cars (due to them being ill, or if they are tired after we have been for a day out with them etc).
R Reg Phase 2 306 DTurbo (Blaze Yellow) (Sold)
X Reg Phase 3 306 1.4 LX (Sold)
03 Renault Scenic Dynamique +
03 Seat Leon 1.9 TDi
52 Nissan Almera 1.8 sport+
addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147
x 93

Post by addo »

Reading through all this is awesome.

I mean, the UK still has unreg/uninsured drivers (and, like here, they get caught and go to jail at times), still has speeding, fatal crashes and drink-driving. Just like Australia. Yet there's a triple layer of mucking about to move a dying car from A to B. Here it's a permit costing just over $30 for most such exercises, up to double that for a week or so.

So - for the sake of future planning - I need to factor in a tilt tray or car carrier trailer for any vehicles purchased. :? I bet the former know how to charge, given the near-monopoly they enjoy.

Cheers, Adam.
Post Reply