2.0 litre Hdi turbo failure....
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2.0 litre Hdi turbo failure....
Following on from my earlier post about loss of power, I had a chance to spend some time working on the car this weekend.
First off I checked the vacuum solenoid valve, which on the C5 is cunningly mounted neat the bulkhead in an almost inaccesible position
The original part seemed fine, but I fitted the replacement one anyway and took it for a quick drive - absolutely no difference in the symptoms.Checking the pipework with a vacuum pump proved that there were no leaks, and on releasing the vacuum you could hear the actuating arm/wastegate operating.
I next lashed up a pressure gauge, and had a go at measuring the boost pressure when the engine was revved. It immediately became apparent that there was a loud, and not very healthy noise coming from the general area of the turbocharger, and that the maximum boost was somewhat less than10psi - told you my gauge was a bit of a lash up....but the boost pressure should be around 1 bar.
The next job will be to get the car up on ramps and check the turbo to intercooler pipe running underneath the engine for leaks, but given the fact that just sometimes, at 3000+ rpm, the turbo will briefly come to life for a few seconds, it's starting to look very much as if the turbocharger itself is poorly.
All the more annoying given that the car has always had 6000 mile oil changes and has only covered 140,000 miles.
Has anyone ever changed a turbo unit on one of these engines... I know the one on the XUD could be a bit of a pig. Does the Hdi follow in this glorious tradition? Just for a laugh I cheked the dealer price for a new unit, and at over £1300 I think I'll investigate cheaper options!
First off I checked the vacuum solenoid valve, which on the C5 is cunningly mounted neat the bulkhead in an almost inaccesible position
The original part seemed fine, but I fitted the replacement one anyway and took it for a quick drive - absolutely no difference in the symptoms.Checking the pipework with a vacuum pump proved that there were no leaks, and on releasing the vacuum you could hear the actuating arm/wastegate operating.
I next lashed up a pressure gauge, and had a go at measuring the boost pressure when the engine was revved. It immediately became apparent that there was a loud, and not very healthy noise coming from the general area of the turbocharger, and that the maximum boost was somewhat less than10psi - told you my gauge was a bit of a lash up....but the boost pressure should be around 1 bar.
The next job will be to get the car up on ramps and check the turbo to intercooler pipe running underneath the engine for leaks, but given the fact that just sometimes, at 3000+ rpm, the turbo will briefly come to life for a few seconds, it's starting to look very much as if the turbocharger itself is poorly.
All the more annoying given that the car has always had 6000 mile oil changes and has only covered 140,000 miles.
Has anyone ever changed a turbo unit on one of these engines... I know the one on the XUD could be a bit of a pig. Does the Hdi follow in this glorious tradition? Just for a laugh I cheked the dealer price for a new unit, and at over £1300 I think I'll investigate cheaper options!
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When did you measure the boost? Full boost is only developed under hard load - eg hill climbing in 3rd foot down at over 3k rpm. 10 psi is not so shabby - 1 bar is only 14 psi, and I'd have thought the factory design boost was <1 bar. You really need to get it on a decent diagnostic computer so you can read some live data....
Richard W
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Have you had it on a Lexia to see if it brings up any clues?
Turbo failure is very rare on the 2.0HDi 8v, in fact ive not heard of one need replacing, not due to a lack of performance.
Turbo failure is very rare on the 2.0HDi 8v, in fact ive not heard of one need replacing, not due to a lack of performance.
Chris
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Ive got a Turbo Failiure on an 8v Xantia HDi 110bhp...
Im also getting no boost, the engine starts fine, and revs nice and freely, but when I hold an intercooler pipe and fev her, the engine sucks the intercooler pipe IN rather then the turbo expanding the pipe under pressure... So I too also have a failed turbo on a HDi Xantia...
So thats TWO Chris..
Paul
Im also getting no boost, the engine starts fine, and revs nice and freely, but when I hold an intercooler pipe and fev her, the engine sucks the intercooler pipe IN rather then the turbo expanding the pipe under pressure... So I too also have a failed turbo on a HDi Xantia...
So thats TWO Chris..
Paul
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If I put a HDi 90bhp turbo into the 110bhp then yes it would be the wrong way round... as the 90 and 110bhp turbos are completely different and wrong way to each other...
Paul
Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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Re: 2.0 litre Hdi turbo failure....
I assume that that's 10 psi relative and not absolute I would have thought that's not bad at idle or a tad above.centurus2400 wrote:Following on from my earlier post about loss of power, I had a chance to spend some time working on the car this weekend.
First off I checked the vacuum solenoid valve, which on the C5 is cunningly mounted neat the bulkhead in an almost inaccesible position
The original part seemed fine, but I fitted the replacement one anyway and took it for a quick drive - absolutely no difference in the symptoms.Checking the pipework with a vacuum pump proved that there were no leaks, and on releasing the vacuum you could hear the actuating arm/wastegate operating.
I next lashed up a pressure gauge, and had a go at measuring the boost pressure when the engine was revved. It immediately became apparent that there was a loud, and not very healthy noise coming from the general area of the turbocharger, and that the maximum boost was somewhat less than10psi - told you my gauge was a bit of a lash up....but the boost pressure should be around 1 bar.
The next job will be to get the car up on ramps and check the turbo to intercooler pipe running underneath the engine for leaks, but given the fact that just sometimes, at 3000+ rpm, the turbo will briefly come to life for a few seconds, it's starting to look very much as if the turbocharger itself is poorly.
Turbo's are relatively simple as pumps go. In terms of failure there is little scope for partial failures they are either good or totally stuffed, usually with clouds of smoke, once they stop spinning the oil seals stop working.
If it will occasional give good boost at 3K ish I wouldn't have thought that there was a lot wrong with it. My suspicions would be an air leak if not in the pipework then the intercoolers seem quite prone to developing leaks or the waste gate valve is stuck partially open.
cachaciero
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Thank you all for your thoughts on this problem, and it's reassuring to hear that the turbos on the 110 are generally considered reliable and unlikely to fail.
The intercooler definitely isn't leaking, so really I have to get under the car and check the pipework from the turbo to the intercooler next. It could be that the strange noise I'm hearing is caused by a leak in that vicinity.
I don't think the wastegate valve is stuck but again I'll double check it while I'm grovelling around down there.
I just want to make absolutely sure that there is no 'mechanical' problem that needs resolving before I go down the Lexia route. If I need to do this, then I reckon it would be cost effective to buy one of the Chinese copies, I don't have a very high opinion of the local main dealer!
The intercooler definitely isn't leaking, so really I have to get under the car and check the pipework from the turbo to the intercooler next. It could be that the strange noise I'm hearing is caused by a leak in that vicinity.
I don't think the wastegate valve is stuck but again I'll double check it while I'm grovelling around down there.
I just want to make absolutely sure that there is no 'mechanical' problem that needs resolving before I go down the Lexia route. If I need to do this, then I reckon it would be cost effective to buy one of the Chinese copies, I don't have a very high opinion of the local main dealer!
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We got a phone call from a friend with a C5 2.0 HDI 90 today, saying their turbo had blown up.
I think im right in saying the 90 and 110 turbos are very different. This problem on this car seems to be due to neglected servicing.
I think im right in saying the 90 and 110 turbos are very different. This problem on this car seems to be due to neglected servicing.
Chris
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Yes chris they ARE different..
I have a GOOD 90bhp turbo sitting around... I know its good, came off an engine that I converted to 110bhp so its in good order...
Are you fixing it, or advising the owner?
Paul
I have a GOOD 90bhp turbo sitting around... I know its good, came off an engine that I converted to 110bhp so its in good order...
Are you fixing it, or advising the owner?
Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project
A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
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A very sad...
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The owner is going to try and fix it himself. He is still looking for a replacement turbo though ...
... ill PM you.
... ill PM you.
Chris
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The turbos themselves aren't different, but the actuators are; and these can be swapped separately.
AFAIK, the turbos are only mounted the other way round on the Synergie/Evasion/806/Dispatch/Expert etc. variants, and they have a different exh. manifold too. It's due to packaging differences with the 'people carrier' layout.
The 206/406 etc. 110s have the turbo the same way round as the 90s
i.e. exhaust on the nearside, inlet on the offside.
AFAIK, the turbos are only mounted the other way round on the Synergie/Evasion/806/Dispatch/Expert etc. variants, and they have a different exh. manifold too. It's due to packaging differences with the 'people carrier' layout.
The 206/406 etc. 110s have the turbo the same way round as the 90s
i.e. exhaust on the nearside, inlet on the offside.
Last edited by fynnbar on 11 Mar 2011, 22:48, edited 1 time in total.
2004 Dispatch 110 HDi