Xantia Issues (Late S1 Petrol)

P616VKX · Post by **P616VKX** » 25 Feb 2011, 21:26

Hi Guys,

I've got a bit of a problem.

The £250 Xantia I bought is giving me a lil' bit of grief, so I need some advice!

The suspension, in the morning takes quite some time to come up to height, sometimes 30-40 seconds. However, the stop light goes out after 6-7 seconds. The thing is, I'm under the impression it shouldn't need to come up to height as it's not a sinker? Which brings me onto my question, why does it sink after 30-40 minutes of standing?

If it's in normal ride height mode and I move the lever to increased height (Not Service High), it shoots up quite high. But then, moving it to Service High doesn't make any difference. Increased height and Service High are both the same thing from what I can see.

The temperature when in traffic is unsatisfactory. The gauge regularly gets VERY close to the top of the scale. It never hits 110, but gets mighty close. The overtemp LED and the Stop light randomly flash if I turn the Air Con on regardless of the engine temperature. The cooling fans only come on when the Stop light comes on.

There's a rapid ticking from under the bonnet (I don't think it's a duff Acc' Sphere), it sounds like it's happening with every engine revolution, maybe the AC compressor or something, not too sure. Would the Acc' tick 7-8 times a second?

Lastly... The brakes! Now, these, so I'm told by my mother are very reassuring to use... And I thought I'd find out... "How reassuring are they"... She drove me to the Air Field and I gave it the beans to about 70 and slammed on... But, there was no feeling of ABS, no crunching in the pedal, it just stopped. I did notice that the stop light flickered when I was stopping, but didn't know if it was the engine thinking it was overheating, or just cos' I demanded so much power from the LHM tank.

Anyone with any suggestions, please do reply.

(Just to add, my indicator relay keeps clicking, but I'm guessing that's a duff stalk!)

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 25 Feb 2011, 22:16

P616VKX wrote:- The suspension, in the morning takes quite some time to come up to height, sometimes 30-40 seconds. However, the stop light goes out after 6-7 seconds. ...

This sounds normal, nothing to be worried about

P616VKX wrote:-The gauge regularly gets VERY close to the top of the scale. It never hits 110, but gets mighty close. ... if I turn the Air Con on regardless of the engine temperature. The cooling fans only come on when the Stop light comes on.

It seems that one the radiator fan motors have bushes in poor condition.
It doesn't work in low speed (series connection) but only in high speed (parallel connection).
After some time it will completely stop working.

P616VKX wrote:-There's a rapid ticking from under the bonnet (I don't think it's a duff Acc' Sphere), it sounds like it's happening with every engine revolution, maybe the AC compressor or something, not too sure. Would the Acc' tick 7-8 times a second?

This might be caused by the depollution valve. Nothing serious.

P616VKX wrote:-Lastly... The brakes! ... there was no feeling of ABS, no crunching in the pedal, it just stopped. I did notice that the stop light flickered when I was stopping, ...

When you start the engine, ABS light is seen on the dashboard and it turns off after a while. ABS system is healthy as long as the indicator light stays off.

"stop light" issue possibly caused by over heating but it might also be caused by the low LHM level.
Check it like this:
- Engine running, car to the highest position
- Orange saucer on top of LHM tank must be between two red lines.
- If not top up LHM.

Post by **CitroJim** » 25 Feb 2011, 22:29

I have little to add to your excellent reply VertVega

The brakes seem exactly as they should be. The way the ABS works (totally differently to a conventional system) there is no drama at all, you just stop. End of.

The fans. If one of the motors is a bit iffy when series connected then it can sometimes be provoked into sort of working by poking the blades with a stick to help it.

Do both fans run in fast?

There are a few stock fan faults that are caused by bad relays and burned contacts on the relay sockets. There has been some good posts in the past on this and look for posts by Clogzz.

The ticking can also be the injectors kicking up a racket. Does it cease when the engine is revved a little?

P616VKX · Post by **P616VKX** » 25 Feb 2011, 23:26

In reply, the LHM level is fine. The saucer is spot on.

Yes, the ticking does do when the engine is revved.

The fans quickly activate then switch off after half a second or so, every time the stop light flickers. I'm guessing there's an inderlying issue there. The engine temperature light doesn't light up constantly when the engine temp is nearly 110.

I did see someone who said XM's have a habit of crusting the terminals on the fan switch plug. I'm not sure if this has happened, but if someone could tell me where the fan switch is

The low speed fan doesn't come on when the Air Con is switched on, and the high speed fan is the one that flicks on and off with the Stop light.

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 25 Feb 2011, 23:53

P616VKX wrote:... The low speed fan doesn't come on when the Air Con is switched on, and the high speed fan is the one that flicks on and off with the Stop light.

I'm sure you already know this, sorry if it's a double information

.
Air conditioned Xantia has two cooling fans and they are both controlled to run at the same speed, either low or high.

When one of them was dead in mine, the healthy one run always on the high speed whenever I switched on the air condition

.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 26 Feb 2011, 08:44

the fan switch/s are on top of the thermostat houseing, i dont offten find these get bad conections/green,

but i have found the three relay pack behind the grill and under a triangular cover/lid between the two fans, these do get bad conections/green which is were i wouls start looking,

it is possible i am completly wrong

and someone with far more electricary knowneldge will put me right,

the ticking if you get a length of dowle long enough to reach the regulator and to your ear, you will be able to check for sure if its the acumalater sphere flat/out of gas or not,

if it is completly flat/out of gas the regulator will/can tick quite rapidly,

and are you sure your car has ABS fitted, as my R reg 1.9TD does not,

the brakes
the brake dosure valve (behind the pedel) is under full presure all the time the hydraulic system is running/presurised,

so your foot does not create the braking presure but just opens a valve to variying degrees, although in reality it feels like there is just two braking presures, light touch=normal braking and slightly harder pedel presure locks the brakes up,

sometimes if there is air in the brake circuit you will possibly feel the pedel patter under your foot, ans also you might find nothing happens on the first/light pedel presure,

regards malcolm

P616VKX · Post by **P616VKX** » 26 Feb 2011, 10:00

Hi guys,

I'll whip the relays out and clean them up tonight.

And yes, the car has ABS. The unmistakeable car in a circle with skid marks behind it is most definately the ABS light

:D

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 26 Feb 2011, 17:44

regards malcolm

P616VKX · Post by **P616VKX** » 27 Feb 2011, 13:18

Well, I've disconnected the Brown Plug on the thermostat and the fan is running fine now. It's on all the time, but the temperature is running about 70-80 degrees. The heater is running fine and it's not having a detrimental effect on the car.

Can I assume that the thermostatic fan switch is causing grief and needs replacing?

Stuart.

Post by **CitroJim** » 27 Feb 2011, 14:53

P616VKX wrote: Can I assume that the thermostatic fan switch is causing grief and needs replacing?

It's unlikely Stuart. The test you have done is to prove the fans run at high s[peed if the sensor goes open-circuit as a fail-safe measure. The sensor going open is it's normal failure mode.

Running the fans at high speed on a continuous basis is not a good idea. Firstly they will not live long and secondly, they are consuming a tremendous amount of power.

The likely culprit is the relays that do the series parallel switching of the fans or one fan is a bit iffy. Are both fans running when the sensir is disconnected and are they both running at the same (high) speed? Also, when you switch off, do they both run down and stop at the same time? An iffy motor will windmill (spin freely) for much longer than a good one and is a sure sign the brushes (four per motor) are worn. That a fan runs with a full 12V across it is no guarantee that it will run with 6V across it and in series with it's opposite number in slow speed mode.

This is a typical circuit of the fan motors (These are the Activa ones). Items 1500A to C are the three fan relays behind the grille and these remain the prime suspects.

Another cause is bad contacts on the BITRON ECU (item 8010) but this is hard to check as it lives under the NS headlight below the plastic slam panel. The whole front end of the car needs to come off to get to it

The best test of fans is to switch on the aircon. As long as there's sufficient pressure in the aircon system and the evaporator temperature is above 5 degrees, the aircon compressor clutch should engage and the fans should run at half speed.

Here's the aircon circuit. The aircon switch is Item 8000.

Hope that's a help in getting the fans working as they should. I stress that it is very important that they do.

P616VKX · Post by **P616VKX** » 27 Feb 2011, 15:04

Well...

Only one fan (The NS one, I think) is working when I disconnect the thermostatic connector.

The Air Conditioning being on doesn't do a thing, in fact, it just makes the stop light flicker more often, there's no cooling fan on even at low speed. The Air Conditioner however does work well.

I'll allow the car to run with the fan on full speed for today as it's raining outside. I've got the week off, so don't need to worry about time constaints. I'll get the relays out from the radiator and clean up the contacts.

I must say, the big fan being on is working better but it does take a good 5 or 6 seconds to stop rotating when the engine is turned off. The other fan doesn't work at all.

It's all too confusing, I've never had a Rad-Fan problem on any car and this Citroen is becoming a damned nuisance!

Post by **CitroJim** » 27 Feb 2011, 15:18

P616VKX wrote: Only one fan (The NS one, I think) is working when I disconnect the thermostatic connector.

There's your problem! In slow speed the two fan motors are in series and in fast in parallel.

If one fan is not working, either because of a relay problem or the motor itself is open-circuit, when series-connected for slow mode then neither will work..

Somewhere, although I cannot find it right now, is a circuit showing how the three relays interact to give the slow-fast series-parallel connections.

The STOP light: Does the red light above the hight part of the temperature gauge come on when the STOP light flickers?

Confusing? No just Citroen electrics

They do keep us on our toes!!!!

P616VKX · Post by **P616VKX** » 27 Feb 2011, 15:21

The STOP light and the Temperature Light flicker together, like they're directly connected (It makes sense!)... There's no delay between the two of them flickering, and as they flicker, the engine fan tries to go into fast speed, but it can't... It's like it tries, but trips out... Then tries again, and repeatedly fails.

I'll get the relays out and give them a look, but if I'm looking at a new fan, I'm going to be most cross...

Clogzz · Post by **Clogzz** » 27 Feb 2011, 15:53

Don’t let the fans confuse you, they’re not rocket science … just voodoo engineering.

You have a low speed fault and if the relays all have five pins, you can swap them all around.
Only the middle relay must have five pins.
Test with the aircon running, both fans must spin at low speed.

Edit: Added maps after seeing the two previous posts.

Post by **admiral51** » 27 Feb 2011, 20:03

Its not comprehensive but have a look Here and the links within it

Colin

French Car Forum

Xantia Issues (Late S1 Petrol)

Xantia Issues (Late S1 Petrol)

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