405 SRDT injecion pump leak
Moderator: RichardW
405 SRDT injecion pump leak
1995 405 diesel wagon, is running fine but noticed a few puddles on the road under the engine, it appears to be diesel and coming from the centre of the underside of the main alloy housing of the Bosch injector pump. More specifically from what looks like an oblong cover plate centrally located on the engine side of the pump main alloy housing. Any suggestions as to what I may be instore for, ie reseal, rebuild ??? Any feedback on possible cause and possible solutions. Thanks!
Last edited by patanga on 20 Feb 2011, 10:59, edited 1 time in total.
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CitroJim
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Hi Ron,
That's a shame following all your work on the engine
Fortunately, the leak is from the timing device plate and is just a duff O ring.
Unfortunately, the pump has to come off to get at it
You'd may as well replace all the seals if you are going that far...
My webpage on it may help..
Therein you'll see pictures of what's under the leaking plate and what's involved in resealing the pump.
That's a shame following all your work on the engine
Fortunately, the leak is from the timing device plate and is just a duff O ring.
Unfortunately, the pump has to come off to get at it
You'd may as well replace all the seals if you are going that far...
My webpage on it may help..
Therein you'll see pictures of what's under the leaking plate and what's involved in resealing the pump.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Injector pump leak
Hi Jim... I couldn't believe my eyes after all the other work. The 405 ran without fault for about 600k's and I was feeling confident that all was going well when I saw the tell tale clear diesel fluid leak this morning. I really do appreciate your link to the pump reseal repair. I've never had an injector pump a part before but I'm happy to give it a go. At least after the head repair, removing the pump is no real mystery now. I didn't want to bother you with another pm after all your previous help so thanks again for coming to the rescue:)
Spring noise on reassembly
Hi Jim..
I've got the pump back together and am about to refit it to the car. I followed your website advice which proved to be most helpful. Thanks for going to the trouble of putting it on your web page.
One thing you might be able to advise on is an internal 'sproing' type noise I heard on reassembly. On disassembly I followed your web site proceedure to wind the pump main shaft back to get it off the compression stroke and prior to doing so I also marked the housing so that I would have a timing reference to the woodruff keyway so that I could re time the shaft when it was all back together.
While I had the distributor head removed (to replace the large O ring) I also checked to see that the small shim under the distributor shaft mechanism was still in place. On inspection I found it to be in position. I separated the distributor shaft and the two larger spring assemblies to check the shim because the distributor shaft was pulled upward slightly as I lifted the distributor body away.
Cut a long story short, it all seemed to go back together ok. I then did a dummy fit of the front belt sprocket, on to the main shaft to allow me to wind the main shaft back to its original timed compression position. As I was winding the shaft back I found it to be a more resitent to my roating force than I expected. That is when I heard a noise that I could best describe as a spring noise, like "sproing".
Once the noise had done its thing everything felt ok. I wouldn't say I was winding with excessive force and so I'm hoping that it was just one of the larger springs at the distributor head end reseating itself into the distributor housing or something simple. Do you have any thoughts on what it might have been before I go ahead with the reassembly?... Is there anything I can do to check all is ok?
I haven't wound the injector pump through a full cycle to double check if all is moving freely because I'm not sure if I might muck the timing up or how many times I might need to wind it to get back to the #1 start position again.
Your feedback would be very much appreciated.
Cheers & thanks
Ron
I've got the pump back together and am about to refit it to the car. I followed your website advice which proved to be most helpful. Thanks for going to the trouble of putting it on your web page.
One thing you might be able to advise on is an internal 'sproing' type noise I heard on reassembly. On disassembly I followed your web site proceedure to wind the pump main shaft back to get it off the compression stroke and prior to doing so I also marked the housing so that I would have a timing reference to the woodruff keyway so that I could re time the shaft when it was all back together.
While I had the distributor head removed (to replace the large O ring) I also checked to see that the small shim under the distributor shaft mechanism was still in place. On inspection I found it to be in position. I separated the distributor shaft and the two larger spring assemblies to check the shim because the distributor shaft was pulled upward slightly as I lifted the distributor body away.
Cut a long story short, it all seemed to go back together ok. I then did a dummy fit of the front belt sprocket, on to the main shaft to allow me to wind the main shaft back to its original timed compression position. As I was winding the shaft back I found it to be a more resitent to my roating force than I expected. That is when I heard a noise that I could best describe as a spring noise, like "sproing".
Once the noise had done its thing everything felt ok. I wouldn't say I was winding with excessive force and so I'm hoping that it was just one of the larger springs at the distributor head end reseating itself into the distributor housing or something simple. Do you have any thoughts on what it might have been before I go ahead with the reassembly?... Is there anything I can do to check all is ok?
I haven't wound the injector pump through a full cycle to double check if all is moving freely because I'm not sure if I might muck the timing up or how many times I might need to wind it to get back to the #1 start position again.
Your feedback would be very much appreciated.
Cheers & thanks
Ron
Last edited by patanga on 24 Feb 2011, 07:28, edited 4 times in total.
Just to be sure
Hi Jim
I've pulled the bonnet closed for today. I look forward to your reply.
Thanks again Jim.
I've pulled the bonnet closed for today. I look forward to your reply.
Thanks again Jim.
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CitroJim
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Hi Ron,
I was hoping to get this reply done a little sooner but you know how it is
Personally, I'd play it safe here and dismantle again just to be sure. The seals will be OK for a strip and reassemble.
As you say, it could be settling but my worry is the HP pumping element; it's very hard and brittle and it won't take a lot of effort just to slip the distributor head off and have a check of things in there. I've known those two big springs break before now...
The springs settling is the most likely cause or it could have been a governor bob-weight out of place.
On the distributor head, it's a tricky old job to keep the springs in place when reassembling and I use big blobs of Vaseline to hold them in place.
As a confidence check, the pump can be bench-tested by hooking up a rig as shown in the picture with a funnel full of veg oil on the fuel inlet and a pipe on the return leading to a small jar.
Energise the stop solenoid from a 12v battery and turn over until the lift pump has filled the pump body and oil is issuing from the return line. At that point the four delivery valves should start to spit oil and at a good pressure too. A good pump should spray oil out to a distance of a metre with just hand turning.
If it does that then it should be good!!!
Here's the rig: Crude but it works!!!
I was hoping to get this reply done a little sooner but you know how it is
Personally, I'd play it safe here and dismantle again just to be sure. The seals will be OK for a strip and reassemble.
As you say, it could be settling but my worry is the HP pumping element; it's very hard and brittle and it won't take a lot of effort just to slip the distributor head off and have a check of things in there. I've known those two big springs break before now...
The springs settling is the most likely cause or it could have been a governor bob-weight out of place.
On the distributor head, it's a tricky old job to keep the springs in place when reassembling and I use big blobs of Vaseline to hold them in place.
As a confidence check, the pump can be bench-tested by hooking up a rig as shown in the picture with a funnel full of veg oil on the fuel inlet and a pipe on the return leading to a small jar.
Energise the stop solenoid from a 12v battery and turn over until the lift pump has filled the pump body and oil is issuing from the return line. At that point the four delivery valves should start to spit oil and at a good pressure too. A good pump should spray oil out to a distance of a metre with just hand turning.
If it does that then it should be good!!!
Here's the rig: Crude but it works!!!
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Cable Adjustment
Hi Jim
I dismantled the pump again and discovered that the noise came from one of the plunger return spring rods not having seated properly. It obviously fell into place when I turned the front pulley. A trap for new players as the pin must have been stuck on the edge of the locator hole and depressed the spring without going in to the hole. Second time around I used a lock picking tool to ensure that the pins were in place as I lowered the distributor manifold. I'm satisfied that everything is seating properly now and the pump is back in the car. I confess to not doing the pump flow test you suggested as I was runing out of time to finish it today.
The pump has the timing belt attached and I am concerned about an unfamiliar clicking noise that is coming from the injector pump while the motor is turned over by hand. At first I thought it might be due to the pump being empty of fuel and maybe not having any internal damping?? but I have since primed the system with the bleed bulb until diesel was coming out of the return line and the noise is still there. I'm almost certain the noise wasn't there before and I am hoping it's nothing serious.
I also stumbled upon another site that describes the rebuild process for a VE Bosch pump and it mentions the orientation of the plunger shaft ports. I know you mentioned to preferrably not to take the shaft assembly out, but as I did, I'm wondering how critical is the orientation of the shaft ports?.. I didn't take a whole lot of notice other than to ensure that the location dowels were lined up. From memory though the ports were in a different position on my unit? The photo below has been copied from the website mentioned.
I also need a little advice on the correct cable adjustment for the cold start waxstat sender. I've attached a photo below and you can see the position the lever sits with cable detached. (I recall you mentioning previously that these thermo devices, located under the fuel filter in the thermostat housing manifold, often don't work and aren't really necessary in warmer climates. I'm not sure if I should pull it against the spring tension and then tighten the cable lock retainer, or leave it in the position shown in the photo and then tighten the cable lock.
I dismantled the pump again and discovered that the noise came from one of the plunger return spring rods not having seated properly. It obviously fell into place when I turned the front pulley. A trap for new players as the pin must have been stuck on the edge of the locator hole and depressed the spring without going in to the hole. Second time around I used a lock picking tool to ensure that the pins were in place as I lowered the distributor manifold. I'm satisfied that everything is seating properly now and the pump is back in the car. I confess to not doing the pump flow test you suggested as I was runing out of time to finish it today.
The pump has the timing belt attached and I am concerned about an unfamiliar clicking noise that is coming from the injector pump while the motor is turned over by hand. At first I thought it might be due to the pump being empty of fuel and maybe not having any internal damping?? but I have since primed the system with the bleed bulb until diesel was coming out of the return line and the noise is still there. I'm almost certain the noise wasn't there before and I am hoping it's nothing serious.
I also stumbled upon another site that describes the rebuild process for a VE Bosch pump and it mentions the orientation of the plunger shaft ports. I know you mentioned to preferrably not to take the shaft assembly out, but as I did, I'm wondering how critical is the orientation of the shaft ports?.. I didn't take a whole lot of notice other than to ensure that the location dowels were lined up. From memory though the ports were in a different position on my unit? The photo below has been copied from the website mentioned.
I also need a little advice on the correct cable adjustment for the cold start waxstat sender. I've attached a photo below and you can see the position the lever sits with cable detached. (I recall you mentioning previously that these thermo devices, located under the fuel filter in the thermostat housing manifold, often don't work and aren't really necessary in warmer climates. I'm not sure if I should pull it against the spring tension and then tighten the cable lock retainer, or leave it in the position shown in the photo and then tighten the cable lock.
Last edited by patanga on 25 Feb 2011, 11:21, edited 2 times in total.
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spider
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Although I cannot see it properly in that pic (and am used to Lucas pumps)
If in doubt, set it when the engine is hot to have about 2 mm freeplay, no more. This way when its cold it will pull it.
In theory you should set it cold or use shims but that only works when its new, trying that with a used one results in it not releasing fully sometimes.
It will run without it but when stone cold will idle slowly and have a slight tendency to stall on deceleration.
If in doubt, set it when the engine is hot to have about 2 mm freeplay, no more. This way when its cold it will pull it.
In theory you should set it cold or use shims but that only works when its new, trying that with a used one results in it not releasing fully sometimes.
It will run without it but when stone cold will idle slowly and have a slight tendency to stall on deceleration.
Andy.
91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG