Resolved: Xsara 2 BSI / Tachymetric Relay

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addo
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Resolved: Xsara 2 BSI / Tachymetric Relay

Post by addo »

A bit stumped on this one. RPO 9025 or thereabouts, petrol with motorised throttle body.

Car won't start, despite cranking healthily.

No faults returned in Injection ECU, no faults returned in BSI - I cleared both.
COM2000 faults I can't clear - suspect unit is duff.
Fuel pump seems to run fine.
I can pulse the injectors and coil packs with Lexia.

According to Service Citroen, this car doesn't have an external tachymetric relay. It's however acting like a car with the tach relay unplugged or defective - not even a cough.

When cranking it doesn't change the status of power fed from BSI to ECU from "Inactive".

Any suggestions? The BSI is above the driver's right shin fusebox, correct? Should either the injection ECU or BSI click pronouncedly when key is turned to fully on?

Thanks, Adam.
Last edited by addo on 10 Feb 2011, 11:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by citroenxm »

pull the coil pack out, plug the Coil Pack power plug back in, stick a plug in, rest it on the engine rocker cover and see if you have a spark to start with...

you'll know then were to go next... but if fuel pump is running, then there should be fuel there, sounds like a Duff coil pack .... even if you can pulse it, it still may mean theres no spark... Or am I mis understood.?



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Post by wheeler »

Can you read engine rpm with lexia when it's cranking, Have you checked the fuel pressure (not just relying on the noise from the fuel pump) ?
If you cant see engine rpm suspect the crank sensor, the thermostat housings can slowly leak into them, look for telltale signs of crystalise coolant.
A quick check for a spark would be to use a squrt of easy start or carb cleaner up the intake.
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Post by citroenxm »

Ah nice thought Wheeler, of course the crank sensor! Thats what stopped my HDi xantia from running.... forgot about that!

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Post by addo »

Paul, there were different dwell times on the coils per the standing data - one around 4.8 and t'other about 5.2 - which would suggest to me there's enough spark that it should cough. Or, at least that when it last ran both coil packs were OK.

CAS is worth checking; agreed there. Can't remember if there was an RPM reading upon cranking. :oops: I had two computer illiterates beside me, and this all occurred at the end of a regular workday so some avenues were clearly not addressed suitably enough.

Oz cars frequently suffer different faults to UK vehicles due to our environment. The worst cars are ex-UK private imports, which readily develop symptoms of both countries! We have recently had an insanely hot spell, with several days exceeding 40°C.

Wheeler, are you able to shed any light on the non-appearance of a tachymetric relay with these cars? How did they go about securing their vital supplies?

Cheers, Adam.
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Post by wheeler »

addo wrote:Wheeler, are you able to shed any light on the non-appearance of a tachymetric relay with these cars? How did they go about securing their vital supplies?
There is no double relay on com2000 models, it's an integral part of the under bonnet fusebox.
The fact that the fuel pump is priming & you can comunicate with lexia suggests this is working.
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Post by addo »

Thank you. I hadn't twigged to Com2000 being the change point for deleting those big relays. Is it possible/likely for stalk faults to influence the fuel pump relay?

Car starts readily on ether spray or a splash of petrol - I'm starting to wonder if the fuel pump is goosed. At 90K (kilometres) though, this seems unlikely.

Regards, Adam.
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Post by wheeler »

if it starts on spray or a splash of fuel that means its sparking which rules out the crank sensor.
A faulty com2000 unit could cause the car not to start only for the reason that it recieves the transponder key signal & transmits it to the BSI. The car wont start with the com2000 unplugged, if it failed in this way it would probably show other symptoms like the sidelights staying on all the time & the wipers working themselves.
Are you getting an injector switching pulse signal (check this with a noid light or LED test lamp, dont belive Lexia) ?
The com2000 would be ruled out if your getting the injector pulse signal or if you go into the live data in BSI with lexia & see if the ECU is unlocked.
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Post by addo »

Your input is greatly appreciated. I think it did show the ECU as unlocked when looking at the BSI live parameters. Testing the injectors with a diode probe seems easy enough.

There was a bunch of typical (for Oz, at least) COM2000 behaviour like unreliable wipers, lighting/blinker oddities. A new unit here retails at $1500 plus fitting, and that makes people refuse to contemplate its failure...

Cheers, Adam.
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Post by addo »

OK, make sure there is nothing close to you that may cause injury as you ROFL.

Car had inadequate petrol in tank. :oops: Neither my Dee-fondling mate nor the road service guy, had checked the actual tank for fuel - they'd gone off the gauge which showed half full.

Lexia indicated a fault in the sender or its wiring. Doing the test actuation showed a normal fuel gauge function.

BSI quirks still exist. For VIN last eight digits 73693992 can anyone shed some light on the correct switch block? Is it 6242F0?

Cheers, Adam.
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Post by RichardW »

No petrol - no comment, sure we have all done similar.... :lol:


"Is it 6242F0? "

Yes, if it's got front fogs. UK price is 153.01GBP + VAT

If no fogs it claims it's 6242Z6 @ 12.92 GBP +VAT but I'm having a hard time believing that price!!
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Post by addo »

Yes, when you look at that part by the accompanying diagram, the cheap one is the radio control stalk?!? I feel it has to be the dearer one.

I once ran out of petrol in rush hour traffic pointing uphill. Used my diplomacy and people skills (those who know me just blew coffee out their noses laughing) and convinced a pair of coppers to push me uphill into a side street.
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Post by Paul-R »

Running out of fuel will post a fault because the fuel pressure will drop as there's no fuel to pump! This can be caused by other things besides running out of fuel of course.

Once you've put fuel in the tank and started the engine it takes (I think) five engine starts to extinguish the warning lamp. The fault record stays stored though.
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