Citroen C5 brakes

michael maurice · Post by **michael maurice** » 27 Jan 2011, 23:26

In November the nearside front caliper started seizing. I was going to do the job myself but it was very cold. I took it to a garage who told me it needed a new caliper, brake discs, pads and handbrake cables.

They did they job and everything was ok until Sunday when the offside caliper failed in the same way.

I know I'll need a new caliper and to save money will do the job myself.

I will also have to change the pads, but what of the disc? If it has overheated, could it be dangerous?

Can I now get away with changing 1 disc? the trouble is I've no idea who the garage got the discs from? the discs have done about 2000 miles.

I found this place to get my parts by mail order: http://www.aepdirect.com/citroen-c5-2.0 ... gory_id=22#

Do they look respectable?

The garage might have used parts by Brake engineering. Has anyone heard of them and are they reputable?

Many thanks

Michael

Trainman · Post by **Trainman** » 28 Jan 2011, 00:22

If it were me I'd be asking those questions of the garage, legally you have a wonderful phrase of "unfit for purpose" and to me 2,000 miles is nothing, offer to refer the case to trading standards and see what they say

Xantidote · Post by **Xantidote** » 28 Jan 2011, 00:32

Suggest you check what the garage did when they sorted the nearside. If they replaced the nearside disc and pads, then I'd expect them to have done the offside as well, to maintain brake balance.

Easy enough to just jack up, remove offside wheel, and check the disc - a new one fitted last November will still be quite new looking, and shouldn't have much in the way of score marks. You should also be able to tell if they renewed the offside handbrake cable just by looking at it's general condition.

Could it be the original (offside) handbrake cable wasn't replaced, and is now seizing up, rather than the caliper?

Edit: seen Trainman's alternative strategy - a good option

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 28 Jan 2011, 07:21

The cappliers do have seizing up problems, i very much doubt it will be as a result of what the garage did or didnt do when they replaced the discs and pads and the other calliper. Maybe they should have checked the offside capplier to, but then it might have been free. Its not their fault.

I had a similar problem with my 04 C5. The calliper had seized and as i was driving down the motorway the brake started to rub, i pulled over as soon as i could at a services but by then i could hardly see for smoke. The disc was burning.

However i free'd off the calliper and cleaned up the friction material on the pad. I drove it with the same brakes for a while, eventually the disc looked back to normal but it had distorted slightly so i replaced the discs and pads.

If yours has not bee rubbing too badly the disc might be ok.

If you are thinking about replacing one disc only, you really need to find where your garage got them from and what make they were, they should pair up.

KevMayer · Post by **KevMayer** » 28 Jan 2011, 08:22

I've had this on my C5. The near side caliper siezed. It happened to me on Christmas day 2009 with all the family in the car dressed up ready for Christmas lunch.

It's the handbrake mechanism which siezes. When I got the car back home I took the caliper off and oiled and greased the handbrake lever on the caliper and it's been ok ever since.

I have hadto replace the handbrake cables since then. The two faults may have been related.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 28 Jan 2011, 10:03

Is this REALLY a calliper problem??

I thought it was just the cables siezing up in the guide tubes and holding the caliper on slightly....

Ive got this job to do on a C5, Nearside front. Ive done the off side. There was nothing wrong with the caliper, it was the cable and guide.

The cables split at the top of the guide tube and right in the wheel arch all the water spray from the wheel gets in the tube - the rest im sure you can work out.

Paul

fred1 · Post by **fred1** » 28 Jan 2011, 10:42

Hi,

Usualy just the hand brake mechansim on the caliper sticking.

Releasing the hand brake cable from it and exercise it a few times with lubrication from preferably plusgas but wd40 if not, until it moves freely and springs back should fix it. Tthen grease with copper grease or similar and connect up the hb cable again.

I find that clamping a pair of mole grips onto the lever makes it easier to work it backwards and forwards.

Initially the movement is tight/stiff and limited but after a bit of careful working they free up.

regards

John

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 28 Jan 2011, 21:08

Thats EXACTLY what I did on the Drivers side... I couldn't justify replacment what so ever....

Paul

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 28 Jan 2011, 22:30

It can be both, i thought it was a handbrake cable problem, as it was frayed. So i got the cables and guide tubes replaced only to have the same problem again. It was the calliper lever for the handbrake was seizing up slightly and not pulling the handbrake totally off.

Im slightly surprised the Citroen specialist who fitted my handbrake cables etc didn't notice it was the calliper which was sticking on.

It is usually the calliper which is at fault.

I took the calliper off, removed the lever and sprayed in free agents, put the lever back on and worked it. Repeat this over and over and, with the calliper on its side letting the grease run it, it frees off nicely.

If you do ever get the brake stuck on while driving, put the car on full lock to the side which is sticking, reach behind and pull the lever with the handbrake cable attached towards the front of the car and it will release. If its not able to be moved by hand then its well stuck and probably requires a new calliper.

daviemck2006 · Post by **daviemck2006** » 29 Jan 2011, 10:52

My handbrake on the c5, although it's holding well is getting a bit heavy ot pull on and sometimes comes off with a jerk after the car has been parked for a couple of days (not often!) Could this be the first signs of the handbrake cables starting to sieze up? Car is 03 reg done 100k, and by the looks of them is due discs and pads on front shortly anyway. I presume that when I do discs and pads would be as well checking handbrake cables as well. Is it an easy enough job or better left to a garage? Thanks, Davie

Post by **myglaren** » 29 Jan 2011, 13:47

I found mine releasing with a bit of a crack when the car first moved after standing a day or so.
Didn't attach any importance to it, then just before the snow and ice it stuck on, could smell it but attributed it to a car in front.
When the snow came it stuck on with a vengeance, had to take it to my MOT station to be released, with the excellent news that the pads were worn down to next to nothing.
Had the pads replaced, then the handbrake cables (ouch) and finally the caliper.

Wasn't cheap

411514 · Post by **411514** » 29 Jan 2011, 21:27

I had this problem with mine which turned out to be the caliper GSF was where i found the cheapest, trade in your caliper for a refurbed for less than £90 however this was 6 months ago. As far as ive heard the calipers do have a habit of sticking and in my books for such a vital component and a relatively low price its worth doing it properly and changing the caliper for a new(refurb) one rather than messing about with a knackered scrapyard one. Plus if you buy a dodgy caliper which rubs your wasting power and fuel, so false economy really

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » 30 Jan 2011, 00:30

On my C5 (2001) I started off with the n/s H/Brake caliper sticking around December 2009. It released itself after braking a few times but not before I could smell the aroma of burning pads. I later took off the wheel and eased the caliper H/B mechanism (or so I thought at the time). Exactly a year later same thing except the H/Brake cable was jammed tight once pulled. I then had to put the car suspension on highest setting, park with the front n/s wheel chocked against the kerb and manually pull the caliper h/brake levers back to release both brakes. Again it was freezing conditions. What’s happening is the old h/b cables have allowed water into the tubes (water spray off the wheels) which cause corrosion which then freezes in the sub zero conditions jamming the cables.

I wont go into my tale of woe fully, but from what I have learned…the best way of sorting this out properly is to order new guide tubes from Citroen (£37.50/pair includes the VAT), new handbrake cables from a motor factor (£10 each including VAT, Citroen wanted £42.50 each + VAT!). With the car up on a ramp the guide tubes are fiddly to replace but if your reasonably competent at DIY should be okay. There is one bracket on each tube just inside each wheel arch but you need to remove the fasteners to the exhaust heat shield and move side to side for accessing where each tube enters the underside of the car / appearing inside in the centre console. You also need to drop down a bracket that supports the exhaust (couple of 10mm nuts). The heat shield can be reshaped when refitting the fasteners if you bend it a bit, its just like thick foil. I suppose it would be possible to do this on axle stands but it was fiddly enough up on a mate’s garage ramp that I borrowed.

The new handbrake cables come greased internally ready for fitting but worth greasing the outside sheathing so they slide into the guide tubes easier and also fill the tubes (wheel side) with lots of grease to prevent water getting in. The handbrake inside the car can be accessed by pulling out the console rear ashtray/storage thing and undoing a couple of 10mm nuts then lifting the console up enough to get at where the handbrake nipples link onto the handbrake mechanism. You can slacken / tighten the handbrake cables with a nut on the back of the H/Brake.

Replacing the guides and cables will probably solve your problems but its also possible that a caliper is faulty. If you remove the caliper and squirt oil down the shaft of the lever (or remove the lever itself) and let the oil soak in there with the caliper upright. Refit the caliper and then work the lever back and fore to free stiffness. If the caliper handbrake mechanism is still faulty then a reconditioned caliper can be obtained for just under £80 from a motor factor. A brand new one will be hundreds from main dealer.

When fitting a new or reconditioned caliper with the handbrake lever on the side it is VERY IMPORTANT THAT THE LEVER IS NOT MOVED BEFORE FITTING AS THIS CAN UPSET THE MECHANISM NEEDING SPECIALIST REPAIR.
To fit you should:
1 Check new caliper will fit over existing pads, there is a pin on the back of the pads that fits into the centre of the piston, so you should leave enough space to go over pin. (Nearside caliper piston winds in Clockwise and offside caliper winds in anti-clockwise).
2 Wind the caliper on to the hydraulic brake hose and fit over pads (when removing the old caliper you may want to clingfilm the fluid reservoir to minimise fluid loss)
3 Bleed the system and pump brakes up half a dozen times
4 Connect handbrake cable
5 Work handbrake 20 times
6 Set handbrake to 5 notches
7 Adjust handbrake cable via adjuster nut until the front wheels lock.

On my C5 having just replaced the guide tubes and handbrake cables, inside the car with the console up when the handbrake is released I can see both cables smoothly moving down into the guide tubes (and down to the calipers). End of cable releasing problem.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » 30 Jan 2011, 00:41

Apologies, in previous post when I said:

"If you remove the caliper and squirt oil down the shaft of the lever (or remove the lever itself) and let the oil soak in there with the caliper upright. Refit the caliper and then work the lever back and fore to free stiffness. If the caliper handbrake mechanism is still faulty then a reconditioned caliper can be obtained for just under £80 from a motor factor. A brand new one will be hundreds from main dealer"

I did not mean to disconnect the brake fluid line - just unbolt the caliper and hold vertically to allow the h/b mechanism shaft to be oiled and to allow the oil to run down into the h/b mechanism.

michael maurice · Post by **michael maurice** » 30 Jan 2011, 10:16

I intend replacing the caliper, for £100 its not worth skimping, what I do need to know is do I have to change the disc? I'll have to change the pads.

What happens if the disc has overheated? Assuming it isn't warped, can it still be used is is there a more serious aspect to it?