Heavy clutch - anyway to improve it?

siraff · Post by **siraff** » 26 Jan 2011, 11:01

I've always thought the clutch in the 1.9td (reverse action or push clutch) was a bit too heavy. I was just wonderign if there was any known way to improve it significantly? I re-greased the spline while the box was off and the cable's new but it's still very close to the same. I don't think there's anything wrong with it as all the ones I've used in various cars are like it. Any ideas?

spider · Post by **spider** » 26 Jan 2011, 11:19

It's normal.

Polishing and a bit of grease on the release arm (the vertical one) along with new plastic bushes in the top and bottom are about all you can do.

Sometimes a new cable can help, but not always.

panason1c · Post by **panason1c** » 26 Jan 2011, 11:22

A few sessions on the rowing machine at your gym might help.........

Post by **RichardW** » 26 Jan 2011, 12:10

Replacing the clutch usually makes it really light.... what did you do when you had the box off? You oculd try a new cable, but fitting it might be 'fun' - not sure what car you've got?

siraff · Post by **siraff** » 26 Jan 2011, 13:17

It's in a partner now. It came from a 306. While the box was off I had a little look around to see what kind of condition it was all in. I re-greased the release arm (you have to move it anyway on the reverse clutch) as a matter of course. The spline the clutch friction plate sits on got cleaned up (wasn't really bad anyway though) and re-greased and when it was all apart I got the paintbrush in to grease the bit where the spring plates meet the thrust bearing.
I only did all this because I know they're heavy from all the others I've driven. I suppose I was hoping it would make it nice and free (it has) and therefore light (it hasn't).
I replaced the cable with a new one I got about six months ago for another 306 but sold the car before fitting it. The partner's dw8 uses a conventional pull type clutch so I had to swap the cable anyway and I thought I'd rather use the new one.
It's not a problem pressing the clutch - just when you're in stop start traffic for hours at a time it can be a bit annoying.
It's about the only thing spoiling the drive at the moment. The 'box is nice and quick, the steering is nice and light, brakes respond well and progressively, suspension is soft but doesn't roll too much - it's quite nice really.
It's a shame it's cable really because if it was hydraulic I could use a servo on it.

spider · Post by **spider** » 26 Jan 2011, 13:31

206 1.9D's usually have a hydraulic clutch. It 'might' be possible to use some of their components but I am not 100% sure.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 26 Jan 2011, 13:34

so are you saying you have used a second hand clutch, also what make of clutch was it, as some of the cheaper ones can be very heavy even when new,

also a conventional clutch is a push action not a pull/back to front type as in TD XANTS and the likes,

regards malcolm

siraff · Post by **siraff** » 26 Jan 2011, 14:38

Yes it's 2nd hand but it's the one that came with the 306. It's a sachs and doesn't look all that old to me.
I like the idea of a hydraulic clutch. I may have to go scrappy digging for some 206 bits and see what fits and what I can make fit.
It's even crossed my mind to use a normal type clutch/box as the dw8 came with origionally. Would this be worth it or am I going to get the same result or even break the box?

spider · Post by **spider** » 26 Jan 2011, 15:11

About the same if you use a cable DW8

siraff · Post by **siraff** » 26 Jan 2011, 16:03

Thought so, Andy.
The heavy clutch has never really bothered me in the 306's, 405's, 205's, etc but in the partner the seat is quite a bit further from the floor so instead of pushing it you're kind of pressing it down toward the floor for most of the stroke. It's even crossed my mind to extend the bit of the pedal where the rubber fits upward a bit so it's more in line with my leg. I think it would mean less leverage though so I may make things worse rather than better.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 26 Jan 2011, 16:42

If anyone would like to know the secret of a light XUD clutch, I have an 2.1 XM on which the clutch is so light that the pedal sometimes stays down on the floor

Its been like it since I bought it, a new clutch was fitted before I had it which was two years ago now and it hasn't got any heavier. This is the only one I have driven in 15 years with such a clutch, I would be very interested to find out why - if anyone would like to take it apart to see...

Peter

Post by **RichardW** » 26 Jan 2011, 16:59

So you've got a 306 TD box in a Partner mated to a DW8 engine if I read that right

We didn't buy a Berlingo primarly becuase all the ones we tried had heavy clutches - but on the original box the cable was on the front and took a long loop all the way around the engine bay, so it was no wonder it was heavy. Presumably with the TD box set up the cable comes up over the top of the box?

It may be that the clutch itself is heavy, but it may also be that there is not enough mechanical advantage in the Partner pedal to overcome the TD clutch, and it will never be 'light' even if the clutch is replaced.

Peter - 2.1TD XM will be hydraulic clutch mated to ML5 box won't it? They are always light, and stay so. The (presumably original) one on my Xantia HDi 110 is still very light even at 110k miles. Just waiting for the release bearing to part company with the pressure plate now....

siraff · Post by **siraff** » 26 Jan 2011, 17:11

No, Richard. It's an XUD turbo from the 306. I got sick of the DW8 giving constant issues and since I've had loads of cars with the xud and no problems I went that way. I swapped the gearbox over too as I didn't know if there was a difference in the ratio's or strength. The cable comes over the top just like in the 306. Infact the routing is identical to the 306. I think the problem may be, as you say, the partner not having as much mechanical advantage in the pedal as the 306/other cars.
I have to give the engine it's due though - I've been using it for about 500 miles now and it seems to be doing about 5mpg better than the DW8's ever did. Considering the extra pulling power I think that's either some kind of miracle or a true sign that emission control devices really are the work of satan.
Infact I could turn the diesel down quite a way and get the same power as the origional engine. What effect if any that would have on mpg I don't know.

siraff · Post by **siraff** » 26 Jan 2011, 17:16

Ok. I've had another idea. Did they ever make an auto box for the XUD turbo?

spider · Post by **spider** » 26 Jan 2011, 18:07

siraff wrote:Ok. I've had another idea. Did they ever make an auto box for the XUD turbo?

No, I thought about this for myself years ago

The petrol autobox's ratio's are not quite suitable, however

, if you can find a ZX 1.9D auto (yes there are some about although I've only ever seen one and that was an L reg) that would probably do quite well.