upgrading to a digital

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falling-out-with-my-car
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upgrading to a digital

Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

hi,
with digital radio almost upon us over here in east anglia its time to start thinking about a working digital radio for the S2 xantia.

has anyone found a compatable digital compatable radio from a doner car that will fit an x2 xantia? maybe a C5 radio/cd/radio.

any info would be gratefully appreciated, I saw somewhere that the cost of a new one would be around 300 quid which is barmy if you can get one out of another citroen on the scrappy and pay a fee for a new code it would save a lot of pennys.

thanks in advance Nigel.
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Post by CitroJim »

Nigel, it'll be donkey's years before they pull the plug on good old analogue wireless in this country...

As much as they'd like to for their own reasons, it aint gonna happen any time soon. BBC R1, 2, 3 and 4 will be there where they belong (on FM) for the life of your Xantia..

Technically, digital radio on the move is not a stunning success and this is slowing the move.

Getting good, clean signals at 233MHz (where digital radio operates, in the old Band III TV band) to a moving receiver in a car with a less then efficient aerial is far and away more of a challenge than getting an audible Band II (FM) signal to the same car at an acceptable quality.

Multipath distortion (which will wipe out a digital signal) when travelling in a built-up area is a big problem and hard to resolve.

The same problems that affect digital TV (rain fade and so on) will affect digital radio just as badly.

The government are pushing it as they want to sell off Band II and make it available to community broadcasters :roll: ust think, we could have radio FCF!!!

Even if that happens, R4 will still be on 198KHz LW. If that ever goes then it'll be like the Ravens leaving the Tower. Civilisation will cease to exist...

So, don't even spend another minute thinking about it :wink: :roll:
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Post by Paul-R »

The only possible reason for getting a DAB radio would be for a station, such as Planet Rock, which isn't available on any other radio platform. Compared to a good FM signal DAB sounds a bit thin and lacking in substance.

The UK implementation of DAB isn't even that good. It's first generation and has been superseded by DAB II which is much better. Needless to say we won't be getting this in the UK.
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Post by CitroJim »

Paul-R wrote:Compared to a good FM signal DAB sounds a bit thin and lacking in substance.
Yes, that's another thing that has people very animated about digital. Band II FM is full bandwidth analogue right up to 16KHz and real, genuine Stereo. Digital is (I believe) at best encoded at 128 bits/s and is therefore comparable to economy MP3 in quality. It's like comparing an MP3 recording to a CD or good vinyl recording. Quality is being forsaken for quantity.

The Radio 3 buffs in particular are most agitated.
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Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

ok thanks for the info,

I did wonder if FM would actually be shutting down and have beengoogling the subject fairly recently and not finding much in the way of answers.

where I live at home in a valley FM radio signals are all over the place and in Kettering I can just as easily listen to radio leicester as clear as radio 2 or 4.

for some reason we are now able to recieve digital radio as we were not a year ago and our area hasnt even switched over yet this happens in March next year.
I will be making the switch at home to listen to planet rock and simply because tunning is much easier than trying to tune in with an FM radio, somehow I think the digital is interfearing with the FM signal as FM seems to require retunning every hour of the day.

different makes of DAB radio have different results some dont pick up any signal at all, pure radios seem to be the best and currently one of the most expensive brands.

I hope that the old FM does stay with us as I listen to the radio alot whilst driving my car.

I have noticed that the radio in my car doesnt seem to hold at a preset frequency any more the tunning is starting to slip to the clearest radio station almost as though digital is affecting FM reception.

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that the digital TV signal could not be just turned up to full power straight away as it would cause interfearence with other radio frequencies. I do wonder if this is what is happenning already?
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Post by reblack68 »

CitroJim wrote: Technically, digital radio on the move is not a stunning success and this is slowing the move.

Getting good, clean signals at 233MHz (where digital radio operates, in the old Band III TV band) to a moving receiver in a car with a less then efficient aerial is far and away more of a challenge than getting an audible Band II (FM) signal to the same car at an acceptable quality.

Multipath distortion (which will wipe out a digital signal) when travelling in a built-up area is a big problem and hard to resolve.

The same problems that affect digital TV (rain fade and so on) will affect digital radio just as badly.
I ran a Blaupunkt DAB radio in my Savanna and two Xantias using the long version of the standard French car FM aerial and a wire soldered between the DAB and FM antenna inputs on the radio. I never experienced any loss of signal or other problems. I was absolutely horrified when I discovered how badly "proper" DAB setups performed.
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Post by Xaccers »

You'd be better off buying a decent mobile (even second hand) and getting an unlimited data plan, O2 do one on payg for £15 a month, and listen to internet radio.
You can get plenty of radio apps, and upload mp3s to the phone.
Install a navigation app and you're sorted.
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Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

Ive got something against all those adapters and pieces of wire pluged into the dashboard running a phone or mp3 player, it makes the whole dash untidy and shoddy looking, better if you can to keep the nice clean tidy lines if you know what I mean, just a shame DAB isnt very good in the car by the sound of it.
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Post by Paul-R »

falling-out-with-my-car wrote:for some reason we are now able to recieve digital radio as we were not a year ago and our area hasnt even switched over yet this happens in March next year.
I think you're confusing digital radio with digital TV. They're entirely separate and one has no impact on the other, or vice-versa. It could simply be that you have a new radio transmitter nearby.
falling-out-with-my-car wrote:I will be making the switch at home to listen to planet rock and simply because tunning is much easier than trying to tune in with an FM radio, somehow I think the digital is interfearing with the FM signal as FM seems to require retunning every hour of the day.
Planet Rock isn't available on FM, more's the pity. If you have Freesat or $ly then you can get PR there; 730 on Freesat and 0110 on $ly. I listen to it using Freesat and running the audio through a cheap computer 2.1 audio system.
falling-out-with-my-car wrote:I have noticed that the radio in my car doesnt seem to hold at a preset frequency any more the tunning is starting to slip to the clearest radio station almost as though digital is affecting FM reception.
You're not confusing this with the auto-retuning of an RDS FM radio are you? As you move from area to another the radio will change frequency to a stronger transmission of your chosen radio station.
falling-out-with-my-car wrote:I seem to remember hearing somewhere that the digital TV signal could not be just turned up to full power straight away as it would cause interfearence with other radio frequencies. I do wonder if this is what is happenning already?
Sort of correct, although when they say radio frequencies they are referring to the frequencies used for TV channels, not radio.

In areas where the DSO (digital switchover) hasn't yet happened the digital TV transmissions are, indeed, on reduced power. This is so that they do not interfere with, not only the analogue channels currently being transmitted but also with TV transmissions in neighbouring areas. This is because the digital transmissions have been crowbarred into the frequency spectrum when there really wasn't room for them. Fortunately it's a temporary sitiuation and will get better.

When DSO happens it's a two stage process. Firstly, analogue BBC2 is switched off and all digital TV receivers have to be retuned. Then, about two weeks later (after the engineers have changed a load of kit in all the transmitters) the remaining analogue channels are switched off and another digital retune is needed. At the same time the wick is turned up and the digital TV is finally broadcast at full power. Terrestrial HD (BBC1 HD, BBC HD, ITV1 HD and C4 HD) transmissions also become available at this time.
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Post by Xaccers »

falling-out-with-my-car wrote:Ive got something against all those adapters and pieces of wire pluged into the dashboard running a phone or mp3 player, it makes the whole dash untidy and shoddy looking, better if you can to keep the nice clean tidy lines if you know what I mean
I'm just the same Nigel, which is one of the reasons why I love the Xantia dash and cigar lighter socket.
With a short plug you can fit it in the socket and keep the ashtray closed, totally out of sight.
Run the power lead under the ashtray, up under the carpet of the foot well.
Pop out the blank panel between the steering column and the window vents, feed it out through the now accessable hole, just enough to reach the phone's cradle (about 4 inches or so), then pop the blank panel back in place, pinning the lead in the top right corner, you should be able to push it back up against the panel when not in use so only the mini/micro usb plug on the end is visible.
I have a sunvisor hands free kit which also has an FM transmitter in it so I don't need an audio lead (the head unit in Cassy has bluetooth too), but before I got the visor kit in Juliet with the MK2's clarion head, I had to use one of those cassette adaptors, running the audio lead tucked away behind the centre console surround, then across the top of the steering column, again tucked under the rounded edge totally out the way, behind the blank panel, and then to the phone, out of sight behind it's cradle.

That the UK has continued down the DAB path while other nations have had the sense to halt and see which better options there are says a lot about Aunty and the previous government.
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Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

thanks Paul.

and no the retunning to a clear frequency function on my xantia radio is switched off but thanks for the heads up anyway why the heck the Beeb cant explain it like that I'll never know, I'll bet youve answered quite a lot of peoples questions tonight.

Xac, you mean you havent got two ciggy lighter sockets in your xantia?

weird I thought we all had two, Ive got one in the centre console next to the passenger footwell as well.
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Post by Xaccers »

MK2's had the second one in the foot well, Juliet has one, I don't think I've ever needed to use it though.
They can be easily fitted to MK1's, I think the LX I scrapped had one fitted.
Jenny and Cassy have 4way extensions screwed onto that area, Jenny's has LED indicators to show the battery voltage which is handy.
I don't smoke so not having a lighter isn't a problem for me.


Along with the phone/dataplan, get one of these or more as you can daisy chain them.
Diddy they may be, but they have amazing quality and are rechargable via USB.
Turns said phone into a portable internet radio, ideal for when you're tinkering in the workshop or out in the back garden.
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Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

I smoke but not in the car as a personal rule.
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Post by Xaccers »

falling-out-with-my-car wrote:I smoke but not in the car as a personal rule.
Argh I've just had visions of an old work colleague giving me a lift in her sierra, ashtray over full by about 6 inches!
Absolutely disgusting, I don't know how people can do that to their cars.

Actually Nigel, you've reminded me that the radio app which I had installed on my phone isn't that great, it just take's Auntie's streams and feeds them to windows media player.
Giving SPB radio a go now (15 day free trial), and it's got an impressive list of stations from all over the world, and as many sites have a habbit of changing the URL of their streams, SPB radio allows you to easily update or add new addresses for stations (just updated the JazzFM address).
Will see how well it performs while driving around, most of the time I've got a 3G or HSDPA connection.
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Post by falling-out-with-my-car »

Xac, maybe you should treat yourself to a day out and visit Wellingborough car auctions where they sell cars complete with overflowing ashtrays fag butts on the floor take away wrapping also on the floor and seats most of the cars have never even seen a hoover or an internal valet in their lives I couldnt believe how dirty a condition people would offer their cars up for sale, just a little bit of cleanning up and a hoover and it could actually affect the prices bid on the vechicles, its common sense of which seems to be a bit lacking these days in some places. :roll:
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