Been advised to SCRAP C5 2 litre 110hpdi LX

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boristhespie
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Been advised to SCRAP C5 2 litre 110hpdi LX

Post by boristhespie »

Okay lots of you will know that I have had an issue with a the C5 above and a loss of power. IT does not have any extra oomph when running up long shallow hills etc.

Anyway Dealers, garages and now Bosch have been unable to find fault.

The fault codes indicate a problem with starter circuit and Airflow meter.

The Bosch garage just advised that they think it must be the computer as they cannot find the fault anywhere else.

The blocked off EGR valve and the fault kept up and the power never came back.

He said he was going to try a new MAF he had just to see if that made a difference (Not sure he did this, my wife has been dealing with it ((its complicated)) I guess that didn't work if he did try.

The upshot is that as he cannot figure it out he thinks it must be the computer and as such the car is not really worth hanging on to.

Obviously I don't want to give up on car. I love it.

Also last time numerous garages said I needed to scrap it re the rear trailing arm bearings another garages sorted it for 300 quid. So I ain't confident it needs scrapped. Especially if he ain't confident.

Can anyone help, either with advice or knowledge?[/b]
C'est pas possible!
HDI
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Post by HDI »

Thats the problem with dealers, they rely on diagnostics too much and are spoiled with doing new cars under warranty !
Has anyone put a boost gauge on it to check the turbo pressure ?
Now using '00 Xantia LX HDI, pov spec :(
My past Citroens :-
'00 Xantia SX HDI, now dead due to accident :(
'99 Xantia HDI 110 Exclusive, RIP :(
'97 Xantia TD SX
'96 Xantia TD LX
'96 ZX TD
'89 BX TD
'88 AX GT
'79 CX2400 Pallas (scrapped :( )
& a couple of Peugeots !
boristhespie
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Post by boristhespie »

Not sure he had a boost guage on it. HE uses the bosch computer. I think he has a lexus also.

Can't fault the guy at all with his trying but don;t like dumping things on hunches as rear trailing arm shows.
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HDI
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Post by HDI »

Basically the only reasons for lack of power on a turbo diesel would be related to fuel and turbo.
So my first check would be to check boost pressure, if this is low then there is a problem with the turbo system. If it's too high then the ECU will adopt limp home mode to prevent possible damage.
If it's ok, then fuel is the culprit. It may be being restricted to limit performance in the limp home mode. This can be due to a number of sensor issues.
Now using '00 Xantia LX HDI, pov spec :(
My past Citroens :-
'00 Xantia SX HDI, now dead due to accident :(
'99 Xantia HDI 110 Exclusive, RIP :(
'97 Xantia TD SX
'96 Xantia TD LX
'96 ZX TD
'89 BX TD
'88 AX GT
'79 CX2400 Pallas (scrapped :( )
& a couple of Peugeots !
citroenxm
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2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
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Post by citroenxm »

If its Turbo, turbo faults are rare on the 2.oi HDI, however, theres pleanty of second hand ones on the bay, and OK to change, ONLY ok...

Im in the process of dooing one on a Xantia 2.o HDi, though fiddley being possible...

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
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steelcityuk
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Post by steelcityuk »

I can't believe a 'Bosch' garage can't find the fault. Maybe you could try a specialist diagnostics company that's highly recommended.

We have a local Bosch 'Specialist' and to be honest they're useless. When the guy behind the counter found out I was rebuilding a Bosch pump from a 2.1 he nearly had a seizure, giving me dire warnings about how their apprentices struggle to get them right. I can only think they're hiring the wrong staff but I didn't say anything. The number of complaints I've heard about them makes me think they're slipping.

Steve.
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Post by myglaren »

steelcityuk wrote:I can't believe a 'Bosch' garage can't find the fault. Maybe you could try a specialist diagnostics company that's highly recommended.

We have a local Bosch 'Specialist' and to be honest they're useless. When the guy behind the counter found out I was rebuilding a Bosch pump from a 2.1 he nearly had a seizure, giving me dire warnings about how their apprentices struggle to get them right. I can only think they're hiring the wrong staff but I didn't say anything. The number of complaints I've heard about them makes me think they're slipping.

Steve.
The difference being that you have experience, maturity and I would bet on a fair amount of expertise on your side.

Mine is being a bit 'difficult' too. No power, revs limited to <3000 and turbo not operating until just under 4,000 revs. Then all of a sudden it will be fine for the rest of the day.
citroenxm
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Post by citroenxm »

myglaren wrote: Mine is being a bit 'difficult' too. No power, revs limited to <3000 and turbo not operating until just under 4,000 revs. Then all of a sudden it will be fine for the rest of the day.
Its called "Womens Problems" Steve :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:




Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
KevMayer
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Post by KevMayer »

Here's an accumulation of all I've learned about modern diesels (I'm not 100% sure it's absolutely correct, but, here goes).

You need to find out for sure if the MAF was changed. If not sure try a new one. The one I have at the moment was off ebay and cost around £45 and it's working well.

Could it be a fuel rail pressure problem.

If we assume the Turbo is ok and the ECU is working properly then what else could it be?

It could be dirty injectors due to using cheap fuel over a long period. Dirty injectors cause excessive leak back which will bring down the fuel rail pressure. Low fuel pressure will give poor power and low boost.

Try a good fuel system cleaner (I had great results recently with Comma Diesel Magic. £6 ish from Halfords).

Did the Bosch man say whether the fuel pressures looked ok? Roughly 250 bar at tickover and 1350 bar at full throttle?

Low fuel pressure could be due to a faulty pressure regulator on the diesel pump. The regulator controls the amount of bypass on the pump outlet. Low outlet pressure when on max bypass. High outlet pressure when on min bypass. A faulty regulator may give too much bypass and low fuel pressure.

A faulty fuel rail pressure sensor may not be speaking to the ECU. This wouldn't be good and a default profile could be running.

It would be interesting to do an injector leak off test. You need some plastic tube and four empty pop bottles. This has been covered in other posts. This test would show if one or more injectors has excessive leak off (which means its tip is dirty as far as I can tell). You also need to have an idea what a normal leak off rate would be because if they all have excessive leak off then they'd all look the same.

I bet when it's sorted it will be something simple.
Cheers, Kev

02 plate C5 2.2 Hdi Exclusive SE (now 170k miles 03/21).

Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
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Post by DickieG »

A blocked catalyst will cause the symptons described and unlikely to trigger a fault code in the ECU, as the fault occurs when the engine is under load for an extended period of time back pressure builds up causing the turbo to struggle etc etc.
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Post by myglaren »

I have wondered about cat problems - I get the em light and the "Service" light up most of the time, together with "Antipollution Fault" most of the time, then they clear for a while.
citroenxm
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2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
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Post by citroenxm »

What could that point to Steve?, 2.o HDi's not got FAPs ....

paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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Post by Citroenmad »

Wow, some garages they are then! I doubt if any of the ones i use would consider telling me to scrap it due to that fault. In fact of of the garages i use loves finding electrical faults!

Id get a new MAF, they dont last forever and can develop faults without putting in codes, though you do have a code.

You really need to get hold of what has and has not been checked on your car, or you will end up having the same things done twice. Obviously your going to take it to somewhere else, as the people you are using dont seem worth bothering with.

I always question and scrutinise a garage when i pick my car up, and want to see any old parts which have been replaced. There are far too many unreliable garages around for you not to do that.

Our previous C5 estate was a 2.0110 HDi, that was very slow when we got it, but a new genuine MAF (dont bother with after market, they are not right for the car) and it was transformed. Just before we bought the car it had an after market MAF fitted, which was useless.

Our C5 SX was getting slower and worse on fuel, again a new genuine MAF fixed that.

Hopefully it will be something simple, most likely a sensor a miss somewhere.
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Post by myglaren »

citroenxm wrote:What could that point to Steve?, 2.o HDi's not got FAPs ....

paul
As Richard says, the cat. Perhaps it is blocked/cabbaged.
boristhespie
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Post by boristhespie »

The guy at the garage is a nice guy and I am sure tried a lot. He's had the car over 5 weeks!

I am sure he wont charge much.

I will find out what he did. I know he blocked off the Gas Valve to see if this made a difference. It did not.

He said he had a MAF lying around and instead of charging me he would try it and see if it is this BEFORE he put it on. Not sure if he did this though.

He seems to think its the computer (ECB?) and says this will cost hundreds so may as well scrap.

He has tried.

The codes were for the Relay Curcuit and Airflow Meter
C'est pas possible!
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