Gearbox issues

[Gingerposer]

Drove from Aberdeen to Glasgow and back yesterday, and a couple of times the car slipped out out of gear (twice out of 5th, once out of 3rd)
Today while driving to work, nasty sounds when trying fourth and fifth gear so turned round and drove home in third gear. Reverse also making slight crunchy sounds.
Gears all engage fine, just when the clutch pedal is lifted there is noise but no drive.

I suspect the gearbox is toast but if anyone can offer a different opinion I'd be happy to hear it.

Also, any idea how much of a job to replace the box? (I suspect more than the car is worth so am prepared for the worst! )

Cheers
Ainslie

[handyman]

Might help if you can say what car or model.

Can you elucidate on the clutch pedal 'lifting' comment? Is this when you depress the pedal to release the drive?

H

[Gingerposer]

ah yes schoolboy error with the lack of description

it's a W reg 1.8 Xantia Forte.

the noise happens when taking the foot off the pedal and engaging drive.

there is no difficulty selecting any gear, just noise and lack of power being supplied in those affected gears.

[citronut]

sounds like the diff is/has thrown its toys out of the pram, is there a smell of gear oil under the bonnet,

regards malcolm

[CitroJim]

That's a reasonable diagnosis Malcolm and by no means unusual.

Firstly, I'd just check all three linkages are in good condition and attached to their relevant balls. It's not unknown for the rubber mounted ends of the selector rods to fail but usually when this happens, you can get no gears at all and the gearstick goes a bit floppy. Not always, it depends which rod has failed.

The task of replacement in a 1.8 is not too bad. Plenty of room to work. An engine crane is useful and a replacement 'box should be freely available in the scrappies.

One thing, if the 'box has lunched it's diff, consider it irreparable. Bits of the diff often exits stage-left through the bellhousing!

[Gingerposer]

Cheers for the replies. There is no smell of oil and no sign of oil under the car. I will hopefully get a chance to get under tomorrow for a closer look.
However, I am not particularly mechanically inclined and certainly not up to changing a gearbox. Additionally, there are no Xants in the local scrappers!
Any ideas on time needed to do the job, cost of a replacement box?

Ainslie

[CitroJim]

The linkages are easy to check Ainslie. Observe the top, rear of the gearbox and you'll see a flat lever ending up in a ball, a round shaft ending in a ball and a flat plate a bit lower down with a ball in the middle of it. Each ball should have a transverse link-rod attached that goes to a similar set of balls at the end of the gearchange linkage.

Just check that all three rods are firmly attached to the balls at each end.

If you go under, please be sure to have the car firmly supported on axle stands.

Gearboxes can be picked up for free upwards to whatever the scrappy thinks it's worth. The job to replace it is exactly the same as a clutch job. In fact, it is a good idea to have a new clutch at the same time.

I'd give a few local indies or clutch specialists a call to gain an idea of how much they'd want to do a clutch and then ask them to swap the 'box whilst they are at it...

[Peter.N.]

Just a thought, check that the o/s drive shaft hasn't slid out of the diff due to failure of the centre bearing.

Peter

[Gingerposer]

Thanks for the replies folks, I have a colleague at work who is very handy with things mechanical. He will have a look over the car this week and see if we can do something between us. I will follow the pointers you have given me, perhaps we can save something here.

Ainslie

[evilally]

My advice is, just get stuck in, nothing to lose I picked up a 'box on ebay for my 405 for a fiver. Pick up a Haynes, get started, post back here when stuck

[Gingerposer]

Have finally had enough time in daylight and dry weather to get under the xantia for a look.
Have checked the linkages, all appear to be connected and moving correctly.
No leaks of fluid anywhere.
Crunching sounds now in all gears and in neutral, with clutch engaged or disengaged.

Guess I'll try some clutch peoples on monday for a quote and then some scrappers for a gearbox.

Will post more when I have any news.

edit: Is the gearbox (BE3 I think) fitted to other models, or do I need one from a car with the same engine?

Ainslie

[flying clutchman]

BE3 fits loads of vehicles, Peugeots and Citroens but you have to be careful to get one with similar gear selectors. The various arms can be swopped over easily enough, but I seem to remember that some had reverse in the opposite position? Perhaps that was only very old ones (in the eighties) A 406 with the same engine uses the same basic gearbox so you should be able to find one somewhere

[spider]

Yes, agree 406 gearbox for example will be fine (get a petrol one obviously!)

It is pre 89 that have reverse on the top left, with an extra 'release' cable to select reverse. You cannot really use one of these.

Obviously, a later BE3 is what you want, as 'flying clutchman' has said , another Xantia or a 406 of similar age will be fine. Just make sure you don't get a diesel gearbox as the ratio's will not be very suitable.

A 2.0 petrol one will probably be ok, but ideally a matching 1.8 one would be best.

[flying clutchman]

yes thanks spider, I thought it was from the dim and distant past! Not much point using a 21 year old gearbox anyway!

[CitroJim]

yes thanks spider, I thought it was from the dim and distant past! Not much point using a 21 year old gearbox anyway!

The gearbox you're thinking of here is the BE1/5. Superceeded in 1988 by the BE3/5 but virtually identical internally bar the reverse gear selection.